Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Shaw, Feb 11, 2008.

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  1. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Believe me, I'm as at a loss to the logic behind this as anyone... but when I ask a simple why in an unrelated thread and then find that someone whom I don't recall having any issues with has some built up resentment towards me that seems based on me sharing my work here, that makes me wonder if this entire endeavor wasn't actually counter productive.

    Lets face it, it wouldn't be the first time that someone has labored under the misimpression that their efforts were for the greater good only to later discover that in all actuality they were producing the opposite effect. And having reviewed this thread (in an attempt to find this conflict that I seem to have forgotten) I've seen a number of times (with others) that seem to resemble that animosity.

    So this isn't a rash decision, it is one that I came to after reviewing the topic to date in search of this phantom conflict.
     
  2. Bernard Guignard

    Bernard Guignard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We'll its your decision man just let me know if you decide to post other places and I'll follow so to speak. I just like looking at the nice technical pictures.
     
  3. Gagarin

    Gagarin Commander Red Shirt

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    say it isn't so, say it isn't so =(
    I spent 3 hours going through Shaw's work--- the depth is incredible....it's the stuff that makes me gaze at Jefferies original work and wish he was able to flesh it out himself..
     
  4. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2008
  5. Tallguy

    Tallguy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, Shaw, the decision is yours to make. I've seen people abandon work here before because of their perception of other posters and I've never understood it (even when the other poster was obviously being a crank).

    For my own self, I always look forward to whatever you feel like posting. So I'll just wait for whatever that will be next.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    On behalf of all the "lower deck" officers on this board, I would like to apologize to you Shaw. Obviously some of the newer recruits still need to learn some manners.

    I wouldn't let one post in an unrelated thread make you change what you are doing in this thread. You have gathered far more accolades than criticisms!:techman:
     
  7. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hope you reconsider because your intermediary steps are as interesting as the final results, at least to me.


    (BTW Shaw it was your posting of your work that inadvertently drew me to TrekBBS. Thanks to this thread, I have discovered that there is at least one ST community where the canonistas don't out-shout any one and everyone else. So now I find myself looking at Blender and wondering if I can get my old student copy of Softimage XSI to work just so that I can participate.)
     
  8. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I'm not saying that I'm not going to ever share my work again, but it is statements like these...
    "It seems it's not enough for you to be overly sensitive to percieved criticism of your own work, now you have to overly sensitive on behalf of others?"
    -and-
    "I'm not the only one, or the first one, who has noticed that you come across as overly sensitive to percieved criticism,"
    ... that makes me believe that a conversation on my work-in-progress isn't mutually beneficial to all involved.

    I'm a firm believer that both friendly suggestions and criticisms can with stand scrutiny... and just like I was opening up my sketches to scrutiny, I believe that comments on them should also be open to the same, with the strongest ideas surviving. Sometimes my original idea withstood the scrutiny, other times I was shown a better way.

    I thought it worked.

    But when I ask an innocent question (why) in another thread, and get basically assaulted with a fierce barrage of attacks (which stem from perceptions made here), that is why I've concluded that this experiment in community sharing has essentially failed. As to why such an innocent question would yield such a reaction, only that poster knows what he was reading into my short post. But the source of the animosity was clearly this thread. And, as he pointed out, he is not alone.

    The fact that I scrutinize critics' positions as much as critics scrutinize my work will never change. And the only place I can think of where I tend to get short with people is when they nitpick on sketches while avoiding the content that the sketches were meant to share. There is a time and a place for those types of comments (at the end when I'm arranging the actual final work), but in a discussion of ideas with what I basically look at as cocktail napkin sketches, those are unwelcome distractions. But I also worry that my critics (the ones I need who look at the details and ask the important questions) may have been driven off.

    Again though, I shouldn't have to worry that by opening a discussion with people that I'll (in some unrelated thread) receive the pent up animosity of some other member. And that member feels totally justified in what they did, and frankly (after reviewing this thread) I don't think he is alone in his perceptions (be them correct or in error).

    So while I honestly believed that this was a successful experiment, and was a benefit to even those who's ideas I didn't subscribe to, I'm now starting to believe that the greater perception is that this thread has been an exercise in narcissism. And I can't think of a good argument against that type of perception considering that this thread is as long as it is, with as many views as it has gotten, and yet I've effectively produced nothing yet.

    I mean consider the additional off topic comment I got...
    "... wouldn't better use of your time be spent in bringing us more of your own excellent work?"
    Lets face it, I get nothing out of this beyond the good will of the community. And while many have expressed that, I'm getting the impression that others are just looking for the opportunity to express the opposite.

    I'm still going to work on this stuff... and I'll still share my sketches with some people (in private), but at this time the community aspect is seeming counter productive. And it wasn't one member ruining it, like I said, in trying to find whatever conflict I had with this person, I came across similar attitudes from others. I just hadn't considered before this that sharing might yield such results. :wtf:
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Shaw, just remember the old saying "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me". If someone doesn't like your comments or work, they don't HAVE to look at your posts. Nobody is forcing what you post on them. If they don't like it, just tell them to go away and/or ignore them. Depriving the rest of us from seeing your work because of an isolated few is throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.
     
  10. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah Shaw, don't let this discourage you. No one's forcing them to read the thread for godsakes. I for one was thoroughly enjoying what you were sharing and hope you'll decide to keep it up.
     
  11. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    A little reminder that some of us have put our own projects on hold waiting for you to finish up this one.
     
  12. Tallguy

    Tallguy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Heh. And there are children in Africa that don't have any Trek blueprints! (Sorry, if we're going for guilt... ;) )
     
  13. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Fine, I get the message. I'll take some time to reconsider.

    -and-
    Wow... I guess it never occurred to me that such a rash decision would effect babies and children. :eek:
     
  14. Philo

    Philo Commodore Commodore

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    It does.

    Now frankly, you're being a little oversensitive yourself. There's absolutely no reason why the opinions of some (whether they're just being cranks or not, and they are) should affect what you do with your work and, if I can take a moment to be selfish, those of us who enjoy it immensely and would be saddened, if not downright pissed, if you stopped sharing it for that reason alone.

    This isn't directed at you Shaw, but I'm always astounded at the way people act in here sometimes. I know you guys are dedicated to your craft, and I'll be the last one to judge you for that, but sometimes you take it all a bit too seriously. Creating and dissecting art based on an old television show is the last place in the world you should be throwing fiefdom wars. ;)
     
  15. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Hell, do you think I'd still be working on my plans if I gave into every crank that came along?

    Pop quiz: Why do you think I'm on my sixth thread on the subject?
     
  16. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that is sort of the point though... isn't it?

    I mean if I'm coming across overly sensitive or other people are, what it boils down to is that people are taking it a bit more seriously (and personally) than something like this really should be taken.

    I get into arguments all the time... no, no... believe me, it is true! :eek:

    But here is the thing... I have a short memory for that type of stuff. I could be arguing against someone one day and for them a week later. I've got far too many other things to think about to waste my time and energy holding a grudge.

    But here, I was seeing what appeared to be a building resentment based on... well, honestly, I'm not entirely sure what it was based on, but it seemed this thread in general. And from my perspective, I might not be seeing what the cause is, but if the effect is that I get ambushed in another thread by someone I thought I was friends with over an innocent question, then maybe this thread has gone terribly wrong.

    I simply wanted to share and discuss aspects of a 60's era television show. Heated debates on technical minutia are great... but personal grudges manifesting in unrelated topics, that is a different story. :wtf:

    :rolleyes:

    Though I bet people will start seeing me as sort of a Soup Nazi now... "No blueprints for you!" :evil:


    ________​
    Honestly... I thought you like coming up with pithy new titles every so often.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2008
  17. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    That was just the theme that grew out of having to restart the whole thing after yet another meltdown.

    That being said, I may actually be on my eighth thread....
     
  18. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral

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    Wow, I've missed a lot in this thread recently... :rolleyes:

    David, don't get too upset by getting flamed on here. It's the internet, and people do stuff on here that they'd never dream of in person (for fear of getting clocked).

    I know that you're a good guy, but I also remember that you (on a few occasions) have taken things very personally, too... and on a couple of occasions, without any real reason to do so.

    The simple fact is that you're doing some cool stuff here and we all appreciate getting to see it.

    And the simple fact is that no matter what you say or do, someone is going to do their best to try to get under your skin. It's hard... especially when the attacks are unwarranted and essentially nonsensical (like the post you linked to in that other thread)... trust me, I have to struggle with not reacting with hostility on a daily basis on here. ;)

    So just chill, keep on posting, and try to ignore people who may be "acting out" on issues totally unrelated to anything you've said or done.

    I'm personally looking forward to seeing this thing get wrapped up!
     
  19. peachysjoey

    peachysjoey Ensign Newbie

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    I for one have no artistic ability. So I watch on with great admiration of the work that people such as yourself produce. Please don't let a few jerks prevent you from continuing your work and sharing with the rest of us.
     
  20. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Well, as soon as I get a chance I'll go back and distill the stuff I was working on for posting here... I've been caught up in other projects lately.

    There is the sad part... it isn't like I've posted all that much to miss.
     
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