Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Shaw, Feb 11, 2008.

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  1. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    All logical and technically sound...except that's not what we were treated to with "The Alternative Factor".

    In that turkey, we were given the impression that the dilithium crystals weren't just a critical component of the engine systems, they were THE source of power for the ship (the matter/antimatter reactor was totally ignored).

    Again, considering the confused nature of the overall script (probably not helped by the casting problems with John Drew Barrymore flaking out on 'em and having to be replaced at the last minute by Robert Brown), the technical issues being a bit weird, especially for an episode this early in the run, isn't all that surprising.
     
  2. c5maier

    c5maier Commander Red Shirt

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    ^^^ I seem to remember an old Gold Key comic where they shoveled dilithium like coal into a furnace. In my book, "Alternative Factor" has about the same respect for basic Star Trek technology as had those comics.
    I like that idea a lot! We have been shown so widely differing set-ups regarding dilithium that this seems to be the best explanation possible.
     
  3. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    My general guess has been that the opinions of Jefferies and other consultants were taken more seriously by the writers and producers earlier in season one than later (when they started to fall behind schedule).

    So while considering the actual set in "The Alternative Factor" I'm taking into account the logic of the engines as discussed by Spock and Scott in "Mudd's Women" (even though they were still talking about lithium crystals).

    One of the aspects I notice that is most often overlooked by fans (and later productions) is the ability to transmit power/energy from one place to another without the use of a conduit or the like.

    Besides the transporter (which is obviously the most visible example of this) we had examples in both "The Cage" and "The Ultimate Computer". In "The Cage" the ship's power is transmitted to what looks like one of the ship's phaser banks modified for use on the surface (obviously because shooting down from the Enterprise risked cooking Pike). In "The Ultimate Computer" the M5 was getting it's power from the engines, and what would normally be a harmless beam of energy was turned into a hazardous beam that killed Scott's assistant.

    Taking into account that that port on the wall of engineering seems to be for energy transfers, I would postulate that the two large pieces of equipment sometimes seen near there are standalone power generators that may serve the purpose of jump starting the engines. They are usually in line with that port and could be transmitting power to the engines via a beam in the same general path as seen in "The Ultimate Computer". And of course as long as everything is running the way it should, their position (or even presence) in engineering doesn't really matter. But in a situation like "The Naked Time" they would play an important part in restarting the engines.

    I think that logic covers most of what we saw (with them moving around a lot) without attempting to determine how they generate power on their own (as internally they are as much a black box as other TOS technology).
     
  4. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Are we talking the big honking suckers off to the side that were present in the first season or the hummer in the middle of the room that showed up in "The Doomsday Machine"? 'Cause that puppy was established in "Elaan of Troyius" to house the dilithium crystals that channel the energy from the matter/antimatter reactor to the warp drive.
     
  5. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    The one in the center of the room remains fixed (for the most part) in one location, so I figure it is a permanent fixture. I'm thinking of the objects that FalTorPan called transformers in this article. They seem to move around (and are sometimes completely missing) from episode to episode.
     
  6. FalTorPan

    FalTorPan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm. I should finish that article someday. :)
     
  7. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    It is funny, I was looking at this thread (Starship volumes?), knowing that this is one of those things that I'm going to have to address eventually, and I'm finding the argument put forward on the linked site more than a little hard to swallow.

    Throughout most of what I've done here I've often turned to real world references for help in fleshing out my ideas. And the weight of the Enterprise was one of the things I was going to base on a real world vessel.

    Now, in this day and age I imagine that a comparative volume of a CG model of the Enterprise isn't that hard to come by, so lets (for this post) assume that the listed volume on that site is correct at 211,248 cubic meters (I'll have to eventually make my own measurements, of course).

    The easiest ships to find the volumes for are submarines (which are basically cylinders), so I've decided to use the Ohio Class submarine as my comparison vessel. It has an approximate volume of 30,054 cubic meters, which can displace (when submerged) 18,750 tons.

    If the Enterprise's construction is anywhere near that of the Ohio, then it would be approximately 131,800 tons (which isn't too far off the estimated 190,000 tons put forward back in 1967, and nowhere close to the 914,000 tons estimated by that site).

    This is just a first estimate, but I think the logic of using real world vessels rather than off the cuff references by writers as a basis is a better way to go here. The author of that site seems to be attempting to use Voyager references as a way to figure this stuff out, but his argument really seems to be taking the canon stuff to extremes. :wtf:
     
  8. c5maier

    c5maier Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, yes, please do! There is already a lot of stearling stuff on that site :drool: and I'd really like to see more of it!
     
  9. Brannigan

    Brannigan Commander Red Shirt

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    Im just giving a bump to this thread to see if there has been any progress made to the project?
     
  10. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know what ya mean, Brannigan. I think I hear crickets chirping?
     
  11. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry about that guys, but I've just been really busy with a ton of other stuff lately.

    I have a pretty good idea of what I plan on for the general layout (what goes where type of stuff), but the next step would be to finish (to a greater degree then they are right now) my drawings of the 11 foot model. So far in this thread I've been getting by in my sketches using a combination of elements from my early 11 foot studies, elements from my 33 inch plans and a lot of hand waving. All of which was great for expressing concepts, but I really need to nail down the shapes and sizes of the various elements of the Enterprise before finalizing how the interior volume is utilized.

    And I'm not just thinking about where everything went, but also how the ship might have been assembled and upgraded too. Things like construction benchmarks of when the ship started to support a crew, when it started generating it's own internal power and the like. Or how (after being in service) would you remove the secondary hull engine components without compromising the hull integrity. I figure that the types of changes we saw from The Cage to WNMHGB to the series look would have been envisioned for a ship that would be around that long. The deflector dish assembly looks like it is mounted in place with the three box structures... so maybe that piece of equipment was something that was designed to be replaced on a fairly regular basis (and was swapped out at least once in the series). Just form follows function types of things.

    So yeah, even though I haven't been posting much, I have been thinking about this type of stuff. I just need to build some time into my schedule for putting all these ideas together and then into some plans.
     
  12. doctorwho 03

    doctorwho 03 Captain Captain

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    It's always a pain in the rear when real life gets in the way of what you really want to do. Just ask Captain April.:lol:
     
  13. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Definitely looking forward to those! Best of luck with "real life".
     
  14. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    I'm wrapping up my studies of the primary hull and figured I'd share the final curves that I'll be using for the deck plans (below). I'm currently studying the secondary hull, and then will turn my attention to the dorsal. When all three of those are done, I'll re-address the internal (general) deck outlines one last time, and then focus my attention on completing as detailed a set of exterior plans as possible. The exterior plans have to be pretty complete in order to make sure that exterior elements that might effect the interior spaces are well documented.

    That, and the fact that I've been wanting to try out all of the techniques that I used on the 33 inch model on the 11 foot model for the last year now.

     
  15. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Well my gosh, that's gorgeous. Question: Is the leading edge of the saucer really that sharp?
     
  16. USS Mariner

    USS Mariner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is it me, or is the leading edge being shown as elliptical? I always thought it was a flat, angled edge with a bevel in profile.
     
  17. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, that is pretty much how the model is today (or at least within the last 10 years or so, as those were the primary images I used for the study). But one of the ways I checked to make sure I wasn't heading off by examining the model too closely was to take this image and compare it to the model back in the 60's, like this...

    [​IMG]

    After all, looking at all the parts really close up can often distort the larger picture and that is always one of my concerns when doing a study like this. But all the curves are best matches over a number of samples (as the model isn't uniform all the way around).

    Also, the edge is flatter near areas with windows... most likely do to a deformation from retroactively cutting them into the model (as they weren't originally holes there).

    Edit:
    I think it is very important to note that I'm not using anyone else's plans here... this is strictly a reverse engineering of this stuff from the 11 foot model using a handful of measurements as references. So other than images of the model itself and the information on this sheet...


    ... I haven't been using any other reference material. So if it doesn't match what others have put forward before, that might be part of the reason. I'm trying to keep this as much a from the model to the page type of endeavor as possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2008
  18. USS Mariner

    USS Mariner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thank you very much! I'll be able to revise my own blueprints for my 3D model.
     
  19. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

  20. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Wow, that is something I'm looking forward to seeing! :techman:

    I'll try to get up a single sheet of the important curves (all to scale with each other) before the weekend.

    After that I'll most likely take a little time to flesh out the rest of the outside of the 11 foot model. Then I'll put together a comparison set PDF of Jefferies plans (updated a little), the 33 inch model plans (corrected a little) and the 11 foot plans I'm working on now (which well show the model as built). I figure it'll be nice to see the progression from the page to the final physical models in a single document.

    Plus it'll be a nice break from the interior stuff.
     
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