Angst-Ridden Dating Rant #17

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Kommander, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree. The looks aren't the problem. It's a quite different kind of style:
    If you use this kind of language irl, it explains a lot. If you want a lady, you have to be a gentleman and not just pretend to be one. I've seen trolls and bullies on this board who used a more refined language (and indeed they had GFs).
     
  2. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Looks like Kommander bailed once the focus became about his action plan! Identifying the problem is good, but if you're not going to address the issues, you won't resolve anything.

    Mr Awe
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    He'll keep doing whatever he's doing, and wondering why his relationships always end in disaster.
     
  4. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep. And that's kinda sad, considering how many people honestly tried to help him in this thread and the previous similar ones.
     
  5. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Identifying the problem would be good, had he done that. Instead, it was just telling us about how amazingly self-aware and analytical he is, while not actually DOING any of that analysis to discover that the obvious things that were being pointed out may actually be valid.

    Well, that and the red herring where he brought up his *interesting* fashion choices, got the expected results (it didn't look good), and then called us all shallow and vain for not praising him for it, and assholes for distracting the thread from the focus.

    Which, presumably, was how awesome he is and how fucked up everyone else is, and why does the same thing keep happening to HIM? It can't be that the only common participant is related to the issue. Hard to tell on that point, because he got pretty aggressive with anyone that got close to that point. Only answers that stroked his ego were acceptable...
     
  6. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    TrekBBS has a very poor track record with these sorts of threads, anyway. I can think of several other people who routinely (or used to) post threads about personal problems, get a flood of (often pretty sound) advice and feedback, then say it was all a joke, or no one understands the problem correctly, or they're all wrong anyway.

    I pretty much expect any advice I give around to here to go down a black hole. :lol:
     
  7. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    I know the way the thread was handled was kind of frustrating, but it's not really kosher to dogpile on the guy when he's not even replying to the thread any more (this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general comment). I'm gonna close it down, but if Kommander decides he wants to reopen it to reply (hopefully in a more productive manner) he can PM me.
     
  8. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    Reopened at OP's request.
     
  9. Kommander

    Kommander Commodore Commodore

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    Time to make the hole I've dug myself into even deeper. Now where's my damn shovel?

    I've noticed two major problems that turned this thread into the clusterfuck it became.

    1: Miscommunication. Mostly my fault. The situation I described with the girl I met at school and her ex was meant to be an example of the issue I wanted to discuss: jealous, possessive people and how to deal with them. The ex apparently marking his territory caught my attention, so I started thinking about times in the past when dealing with jealous, possessive people. Those situations ended less than desirably for me, so I decided to ask others about it. I wanted to discuss the circumstances in general, but others wanted to discuss the example specifically. I got confused, and wondered what the hell happened.

    2: The existence of "this type of thread." Everyone has expectations of this type of thread. Specifically, the OP being an ass and not listening to anyone. I was trying to poke fun at that perception a bit, but it was poorly executed and I just ended up looking like an especially big ass. You guys probably decided I was being an ass before even opening the thread, so there's no way I could win.

    As for the hostile, condescending posts that a lot of you have made: Does that ever work when trying to convince someone they're wrong? Are you ever convinced when someone argues with you that way? I doubt it. When I did the same thing back no one retracted what they said and told me I was right, I was just accused of being egotistical and not listening to anything anyone had to say. So, it's bad when I do it but it's okay when anyone else does it because, why, I'm not as good as other people? Is that what I should take from this?

    I've got more to say, but I've been up since 3am and I'm getting tired. I didn't want to wait too long after the thread was reopened to say something though. One more thing:

    This is a good example of what I don't understand about this thread. I mentioned it off-handedly originally, and then people began focusing on it. I figured they were thinking "typical neckbearded Men's Rights Advocate," so I posted a picture to show that I was something other than that. I never expected praise for the way I dress, you and others just assumed I did. I got irritated because people were focusing on it excessively, not because they were saying negative things. I'm not going to claim that I'm perfect, but a lot of the shit I've gotten in this thread is because of the shit-giver's own flawed perception. Seriously, some of the wild speculating you people have done makes just as much sense as me thinking the ex marking his territory was aimed at me specifically; vaguely plausible but probably not actually true.
     
  10. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    The problem I had with the original post was all the Odin stuff made you sound like a lunatic, and then having to sift through all that to find what you really wanted to talk about.

    Your description of the situation with the boyfriend made it sound as if you were the jealous and possessive one, not him, because of how you interpreted a photograph. You were even wondering if you should tell the guy to back off, when you hadn't even made a first move toward dating the girl. If the guy had posted the photograph with a caption like "Back off, Kommander," you might have reason to think the picture was meant for you personally, but it sounds more like you're reading more things into it than there really was.
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. The issue is that you actually come of as jealous and possessive. The other guy probably doesn't even know or care you exist.
     
  12. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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  13. Kommander

    Kommander Commodore Commodore

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    I put that in there mainly because it was completely absurd, I was trying to make the point "my tone isn't completely serious here." But yeah, batshit insanity seems like a logical option as well.

    Looking back at the OP, I can kind of see why I came across this way. The main reason I thought maybe it was aimed at me is that, in the past, many guys have made a point of pretending that they don't know or care that I exist, and often try to provoke me with this.

    An example: Six or seven years ago, I was sitting in a Starbucks with a girl I had had a crush on in high school. She had tracked me down hoping I was still interested in her, which I thought was awesome. About half an hour after we had arrived, this other guy that was interested in her shows up. He moves a chair over and places it with the back toward me, which was really awkward because of how close to her I was sitting. After a few minutes she points out that she's on a date and would prefer to talk to this guy later. He turns around briefly, says "oh, sorry, I didn't see you there." He turns back to her and asks "is this that gay friend you were telling me about?" He then suggests that her and I say goodbye while he gets a coffee and then that her and him should sit and talk more. She suggests that they meet on another day, he gives up and leaves.

    I mostly found him to be a minor irritation, but he was clearly trying to provoke me. Questioning my sexuality is pretty high on my list of "things I don't give a shit about," but that isn't true of a lot of men. After he left I commented "well, that was odd." and got on with my evening. I called her two or three days later to set up another date, and she was with this guy at the time. After finding out it was me on the phone, I distinctly heard him say "hang up or I'm going to kill that motherfucker." So, I said I'd call her back later. After I got off the phone I was thinking this guy definitely made an ass out of himself, and he'd go away shortly if I ignored him. What happened instead is that they were together for three years and had a kid together. At the time I was thinking I screwed up somehow, but now I realize that she screwed up by not telling that guy to fuck off.

    As for the current situation, if the ex noticed all the flirtatious comments I was making and felt threatened, he probably wouldn't confront me directly. He'd probably do what they guy in the above example and several others have done; make a point of ignoring me at first and subtly trying to provoke me, and when that doesn't work, confront me directly later.

    If this is what that guy was doing, it seemed likely he'd become a bigger problem later. At the time, I did not feel a need to confront him. If he became a bigger problem, that might change. What I've tried in the past, ignoring it and hoping the guy will give up, doesn't work very well. So what other options are there? Being an even bigger ass hole seems like a worse option. Walking away from the situation is usually the best option, but it usually not the option I want to take. Dating women that don't attract these kinds of men seems like it should be an option, but I won't know that for sure until I actually date someone that doesn't attract these kinds of men.

    As for the current situation, it was probably something else. He hasn't done anything else, and he hasn't come up in conversation. It's possible that they parted kind of suddenly, he just wanted closure, and he posted the pictures to show everyone that they parted on good terms.

    Ok, purely hypothetical: Lets say things start getting romantic between this woman and I, and the ex decides to start being a dick. Or it's a different woman and a different ex, and whatever woman it is decides to tolerate this behavior. Do I have other options aside from ignoring it or walking away? Saying something like "if this guy's behavior continues, I'm going to have to stop seeing you" seems like a viable option, but I hate issuing ultimatums.
     
  14. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Your example aside, I'm not convinced that these guys pretend to not notice you. It is possible that they actually don't notice you. The guy you started this thread about, for instance, probably has no idea you exist, but it was all about him asserting his dominance in the face of a potential rival.

    Yes, exactly. You should have figured that out the moment he made those remarks in front of you. A woman who would put up with that shit is not one I'd want to be with.

    Again, though, you jumped to conclusions based on your past (admittedly pretty bad) experiences. Every experience is different--you can't connect those dots and assume "this guy is out to get me" based on a single photo.

    Right. Well, it's become clear that you now have a tendency to overreact to the behavior of other men because of bad experiences you had in the past. That's understandable, but I think you should go into each new (potential) relationship with fresh eyes. That doesn't mean you should ignore what you've learned in the past, but don't be so quick to draw conclusions on next to no information just because it's slightly reminiscent of something that happened to you before. Something blatant, like a guy trying to insult your sexuality in front of a woman you're interested in? Sure, that is something to make note of. A guy you don't even know mugging for the camera at an event you didn't go to? That shouldn't even be on the radar, dude.

    It's possible you jumped to conclusions based on basically nothing.

    Yes, you have options. You can talk to her about it. She is the one you're (hypothetically) in a relationship with, not him. As long as you are reasonable, not controlling or manipulative, and you express that this person is interfering with your relationship, she should be willing to do something about it--either talking to the guy or telling him to get out of her life.

    That doesn't mean it will work. It obviously depends on the behavior of other people and their willingness to alter it. I would say that if she is unwilling or unable to put a stop to this guy's antics, then yes, it is probably a good idea to walk away.

    I think the problem for most of us here has been that you're already trying to figure out how to deal with him when you haven't even asked this girl out. You're not just putting the cart before the horse, you're putting it on another planet.
     
  15. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, that was my impression as well and, like I mentioned, it's called projection when what someone sees is actually coming from within themselves.

    Mr Awe
     
  16. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The problem is that this women either wasn't really that much into you and/or not really motivated enough to leave this other guy. In this light, any relationship with her was doomed to failure through no fault of your own.

    Refraining from acting like an ass was the right choice and it was not the reason that this relationship ended. In other words, you did the right thing and it just wasn't going to work. She wasn't over this other guy and you really had no chance.

    The last thing you should take from this is that you need to act aggressively in these situations. If there was anything you could've done differently it would've been better communciation with the girl in question. While you were talking to her in person, rather than just saying "that was odd" you could've asked her more about the other guy, and especially about whether she was still in a relationship with him.

    This may well not have changed the way things went but at least you would've had forewarning about what was going to happen!

    I agree with Robert Maxell, you should go into a new relationship with fresh eyes. Don't expect the worst!

    If there is such a guy in the picture, watch her reaction to him. If she doesn't distance him, well that's a bad sign!

    And, like I said above, the last thing you should take from the previous situation is that acting like an ass yourself would improve the outcome! Have an honest discussion with her to see what her intentions are.

    Will she distance herself from the other guy? If so, you can work with her to help. If not, well, you're in trouble and really acting like an ass will only worsen the situation. At that point, you probably should be looking for a graceful exit!

    Mr Awe
     
  17. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What? Posters ignoring any words of wisdom one of our revered Mods is so gracious as to share with us? Naaaah! :D
    (LOL sorry, but you almost asked for this. Feel free to occasionally pull my leg for revenge [preferably the right one - I've broken my left knee recently ;)])


    I think everyone has the highest opinion of themselves. It's only human. What is important in life (and particularly in relationships) is to question, analyze and view with a critical eye not only the rest of the world but also oneself.
    Only if we realize our erors we can learn from them and improve. And if we don't realize them it's ok to ask others.
    However, we should only ask if we are willing to accept an answer, even if it's an unpleasant one.

    The latter is in my humble opinion the root of Kommander's problems, both with the potential GF and with our recommendations. Both are based on not being able to accept an unpleasant situation and to change an apparently disadvantageous behaviour pattern.

    And at a second thought, a lack of trust comes into the equation, too, as a third factor or at least a co-factor.
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    You're doing it again. All this and more about a guy that apparently you've never met personally, have never even seen in person to observe his behavior, and have never talked to. Yet you're pretending you know how he thinks and acts based on your experiences dealing with other men.
     
  19. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    AND as you're not dating the girl in question, it's really none of your business. You're not (yet) an important part of that particular story, you barely talk to her. What he's doing or saying has no bearing on anything going on in your life. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't know you exist. And so far, he's got no reason to care.

    And in all of those similar stories, it's none of your business. It's the GIRL'S place to take care of the ex, or not. If you had some ex and there was some drama there, some new girl that's barely speaking to you (much less anything else) wouldn't be overly welcomed into making decisions and getting hostile/aggressive with the ex, would she? Especially if you weren't sure you had any particular interest in the new girl, you barely talked, and you hadn't fully worked out the deal with your ex yet? That's essentially what it looks like from the outside.

    You've got all this going on in your head, and you're way over-invested compared to the girl. There's a whole story in your head for what's going on, but it's only in your head. Until you get involved with the girl, none of your business. And even then, not really your business unless the guy physically attacks you. It's up to the girl to tell him to get lost, or tolerate him, or ditch you to be with him, but being aggressive and possessive doesn't help your position.
     
  20. Kommander

    Kommander Commodore Commodore

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    I've noticed that trying to get back together with a recent ex is often indicative of possessiveness. There are other reasons for it, but it is a big one. I thought it was possibly aimed at me mostly on instinct. He seems like the type that reads everything she posts, including all the flirty comments I've left and, as far as I know, no one else is leaving flirty comments on her stuff. This is far from conclusive evidence, but seems to be enough to be suspicious.

    As for other times, I'm basing it on how many times men have blatantly made a point of ignoring me or subtly confronting me. When I'm talking to someone in person and sitting or standing reasonably close, and then another person moves between us and then positions them self with their back toward me, and then later claims they didn't see me or doesn't acknowledge me at all, it's pretty clear what they were doing. It's pretty easy to notice when someone is talking to someone else that is standing less than two feet away, especially when that person steps between them. As far as online, a few years ago a girl I was involved with posted a picture on MySpace or Facebook or something, and I commented that her eyes looked particularly vibrant. The next comment was from another guy that was interested in her that said: "Nice pic. I hate to be so crass as to compliment your eyes, but they're very pretty." This kind of thing.

    Right. Well, it's become clear that you now have a tendency to overreact to the behavior of other men because of bad experiences you had in the past. That's understandable, but I think you should go into each new (potential) relationship with fresh eyes.[/quote]
    I agree completely. I try to be optimistic about the future while being mindful of the past. Occasionally I'm a little too mindful of the past, but things usually turn out okay if I catch myself doing it before making too much of an ass out of myself.

    Basically nothing isn't the same as absolutely nothing, but I see your point. I think part of why I started this thread is because I don't trust my own judgment and needed to be told this.

    I have a tendency to believe that, when things don't go the way I'd like, that I am completely responsible; that any conflict or unfortunate circumstances involving me happened because I fucked up somehow. There's a lot to why I have this outlook, but simply put: I was raised Catholic. Logically I realize I'm not responsible for everything, but realizing it emotionally is different and much more difficult. This probably has a lot to do with why I reacted badly to the hostile posts.

    Yes, but I do not think this is a bad thing. I contemplate worst-case scenarios about pretty much everything. When I leave for school in the morning I think about getting into car accidents or getting mugged, sitting in class I think about another student pulling out a gun and shooting people. If I get pulled over for speeding on my way home I think about the cop planting drugs on me and then demanding a bribe to let me go. Why do I do this? On the rare occasion that something bad does happen, I'm better prepared for it and I tend not to panic. Some of you may remember a thread I made a few years ago in which I witnessed a motorcycle accident, I stopped, and took control of the situation until the police and paramedics arrived. I was able to do that because I idly think about things like that. Everyone else was panicking, whereas I had a basic plan ready to go. Because I worry about not being prepared and try to account of it, there have only been two or three times in my life when I've been in situations where I panicked, and even then it was pretty mild.