Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by saturn5, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    ^It's like how the First Evil is able to touch Angel in 'Amends' and yet later on, its strictly incorporeal.
     
  2. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
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    LULLABY
     
    [FONT=Times New Roman]The Good;
    All of it, pretty damn brilliant, especially love Holtz raiding the club. The Lilah and the interpreter scene is also great, no such thing as a minor character on Angel.
    Interpreter (horrified); "You highlighted an ancient gushundi text?"
    Lilah (defensively); "In yellow"
    The Bad;
    Even if it's just a stun grenade wouldn't Lilah and Holtz be deafened for hours afterwards? Why can't they just resoul Darla?
    Best line:
    Sahjahn; "He's using product but he's the same guy"
    Jeez, how did they get away with that?
    Darla and Angelus slaughtering Holtz's family is beyond horrible. Holtz's killing his sired daughter is the strongest and most tragic act in the series, your heart just bleeds for him.
    Apocalypses: 5
    Angel Cliches
    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
    In disguise; 8
    DB get's his shirt off; 12
    9,
    Cheap Angel; 7
    Fang Gang in bondage: Angel pinned
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 12
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 3
    Lorne; 2

    Fang gang knocked out: Wes by Darla
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 6
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 2
    Kills:
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 28 vamps, 41 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 7 demons+2 vamp
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 7

    Characters killed:
    45
    Recurring characters killed; Goodbye Darla, she'll appear again but she's finally dead this time
    8;
    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1
    Packing heat; Lilah threatens her lackey with her gun. Angel uses the stun grenade (which Holtz is obviously impressed by and uses one later at Caritas) and Wes wishes he had a shotgun.
    Wes; 4
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:
    Way to much going on for that
    Captain Subtext;
    Or that.
    Know the face, different character; 4
    Parking garages;
    5,
    Guantanamo Bay;
    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
    Questions and observations;
    Holtz is one pretty damn tough guy to take on WR&H's commando team. Note Angel doesn't even try to tell Holtz he has a soul, he knows he'd be wasting his time. Goodbye Caritas, after this Lorne won't bother trying to rebuild again.
    The end of the Angel/Darla relationship and it's EPIC! And hello Connor (for good or ill).
    Marks out of 10; 9/10
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  3. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

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    that's such a great scene. i never considered her to be defensive, more matter-of-fact. but now that you mention it, she is a lawyer: what the fuck is she thinking highlighting an original?!? that's why god made copy machines!


    why don't vamps sire more children? are they just too tasty to resist?

    :scream:
    oops, wrong thread :D
     
  4. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't see it as defensive either. I see it as, "Yeah, I highlighted it. Are you gonna make something of it, or do I get out the stapler gun?"

    It's things like this that make me love Angel - no black and white. A mass-murdering demon who vamped a child and forced her own father to kill her... is the hero of the show. Yet a genuinely wronged human who has vowed to rid the world of evil in general and this mass-murdering demon in particular is the villain.
     
  5. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    Yep. I too love the moral shades of grey in Angel. Holtz is not even a villain, in fact many of his actions are perfectly understandable.
     
  6. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    DAD
     
    [FONT=Times New Roman]The Good;
    Love all the Lilah stuff, especially love 'Files and records' girl (who presumably gets killed by the Beast in season 4). The seige of the Hyperion is also good as is the reveal of Lorne's message
    The Bad;
    Won't the LAPD notice all this going on?
    Best line:
    Holtz; "I think you'll find your modern popular culture references wasted on me" (No kidding!)
    Jeez, how did they get away with that?
    Apocalypses: 5
    Angel Cliches
    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
    In disguise; 8
    DB get's his shirt off; 12
    Cordy's tatt; 9,
    Cheap Angel; 7
    Fang Gang in bondage:
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 3
    Lorne; 2

    Fang gang knocked out:
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 2
    Kills: 3 demons, 2 humans and a vamp for Wes, a demon for Gunn, 4 vamps, 4 demons and 4 humans for Angel
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 32 vamps, 45 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 10 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 7 demons.
    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 7

    Characters killed:
    45
    Recurring characters killed;
    8;
    Total number of Angel Investigations: Lorne moves into the Hyperion and joins the gang. Most would say that this is the definitive Angel Investigation line-up?
    6, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred and Lorne

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1
    Packing heat; literally, Wes with a flamethrower (why not use that more often?)plus Angel with explosives
    Wes; 5
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:
    Captain Subtext;
    Angel has a woman's taste in clothes according to CC.
    Know the face, different character; 4
    Parking garages;
    5,
    Guantanamo Bay;
    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
    Questions and observations;
    Justine's sister is portrayed by Pat Tallman (her stunt double) who was one of my favourite characters from Babylon 5. Gunn refers to his cousin, I thought Elana was his only family? Fred is a computer expert now, just like Willow. Connor likes Angel in vampface which explains why he has no problem with Jasmine's true form. Cordy comments that Connor has Angel's brow. Holtz has killed 378 vamps in 9 years which is good going, in six years by my count Buffy has only killed about 150 vamps/demons and she's the most successful Slayer ever (although she has spent much of that time running away to LA and dead).
    Marks out of 10; 9/10, slam bam all the way.
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  7. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    BIRTHDAY
     
    [FONT=Times New Roman]The Good;
    Cordy's sitcom is great and some excellent crazy acting from DB. Also nice to see Doyle again if only in a clip.

    The Bad;
    Feels a bit laboured in places. How can the message in one dimension still be there in another (Jasmine?)

    Best line:
    Skip; "Get out of here. No really, get out of here"

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches

    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tattoo; yep when she's ripping the wallpaper off so that makes 10. Note it's not CC doing the somersault on her show's credits because you don't see her tattoo.

    Cheap Angel; 7

    Fang Gang in bondage: no although Wes and Gunn use manacles to restrain mad Angel.
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 3
    Lorne; 2

    Fang gang knocked out: CC for the whole ep
    Cordy: 12
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 2

    Kills:
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 32 vamps, 45 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 10 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 7 demons.
    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2

    Alternate Fang Gang: Angel possessed by CC
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed:
    45

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    6, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred and Lorne

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat;
    Wes; 5
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:
    Fred mentions she didn't wear underwear for 5 years. Gunn goes through CC's lingerie. To judge by CC's cleavage exposing outfit on her show this must be sweeps week?

    Captain Subtext;
    If Cordy wasn't around does this mean Doyle's last act was to kiss Angel? Love the CC as Wonder Woman cake the gang get for Cordy, too bad Joss went off the idea of making the film. Gunn comments that Fred is so cool. Wes refer to Gunn as his 'partner'. CC and Angel kiss

    Know the face, different character; 4

    Parking garages;
    5,

    Guantanamo Bay;

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;
    So this is a world where CC never joins AI. No Fred so presumably after Wes and Gunn rescue her she goes back to Texas? In a world without Cordy's influence does this mean Merle, Elana etc are all still alive? Pentagrams always bad news. What are Buffy and the Scoobs doing about mad Angel in this alternate reality? CC is now part demon as is Faith, Buffy etc. This is ep 55 so exactly half way through the series.
    Marks out of 10; 6/10
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  8. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's not the same thing at all. Cordelia now has actual demon blood and physiology, like Doyle did. Faith and Buffy just have a tiny piece of the spirit of a demon, thanks to the Slayer spell, but their physiology is entirely human.
     
  9. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's arguable, they have enough demon in them to influence their behaviour and give them psychic dreams etc as well as their physical strength. I always think of Buffy telling Adam 'I'm not a demon' and him replying 'Is that a fact?'


    PROVIDER

    The Good;
    Some great comedy and some excellent action, great payoff in the end (literally)

    The Bad;
    Not bad, just lightweight. Don't like the way they can't just come out and say 'gay lover' for Sam Ryan's friend. Wes and Gunn seem to take an awful lot of trouble defeating Brian.

    Best line:
    Justine (about the ice-pick through her hand) "Feeling something is better than feeling nothing" That girl has some SERIOUS damage deep inside and I'm not talking tissue. Can never help thinking of Season 6 Buffy and Spike?

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?
    See above

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches
    Inverting the Hollywood cliche; the hero who is out for money

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tatt; 10

    Cheap Angel; the whole thing 8. Ironically CC who'd always been so mercenary now doesn't care about the money. Although she thinks that $50,000 is way up there on the list of cool things in the world.

    Fang Gang in bondage: Lorne and Fred tied up
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 3
    Lorne; 3
    Fred; 1

    Fang gang knocked out: Lorne
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 3

    Kills: Angel kills 7 vamps whilst Gunn and Wes take a demon each
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 39 vamps, 52 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 11 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 8 demons.

    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2
    Gunn; 1
    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed:
    45

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat;
    Wes; 5
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:
    Allie misses the sex from her dead boyfriend and seems to be open to necrophilia. In a dark scene in an otherwise lightweight ep Justine and Holtz play some serious S&M games. Tying your hair in pigtails and having your boyfriend play the stern headmaster is one thing, sticking icepicks through the hand and consenting not to take it out as a trust exercise quite another! Brian seems to think that Allie is dating both Gunn and Wes at the same time. Fred thinks they want her to marry the Prince

    Captain Subtext;
    The Wes/Gunn/Fred love triangle becomes apparent. Obvious gay subtext between Sam Ryan and his 'friend'. He also notices that Angel is quaffed. Lorne says he never knew the demons intimately. CC and Angel lying on the bed with Connor together at the end, a perfect little family.

    Know the face, different character; 3

    Parking garages;
    5,

    Guantanamo Bay;

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;
    Obvious Monty Python gag. Angel comments that 'We may have to incorporate' which is what they do in season 5. Eric Bruskotter who plays Brian was in one of my favourite shows Tour of Duty, you can also see him in Starship Troopers, Hamburger Hill and Crimson Tide. Jeffery Dean Morgan as well as appearing in Supernatural and Watchmen was in my favourite erotic thriller ever, Undercover Heat (which I'm sure he's taken off his CV). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114786/ He's also another Buffy/Angel alumni who turns up in Eliza Dushku's series Tru Calling in the gambling ep.
    Angel's arrival is very Batman.
    Marks out of 10; 7/10, fun comedy ep
     
  10. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    WAITING IN THE WINGS

    The Good;
    All of it, great humour, great pathos, the ballet is beautiful and this is THE ep for Cangelers

    The Bad;
    ?-actually how can Angel be so sure that it's the same people he saw 100 years ago, do vampires have perfect recall? And do we really believe that Angelus who casually slaughters entire famillies gets moved to tears by a ballet (or is he just gilding the lily for Gunn?). How does the Count explain that his ballet company appears to have no members?

    Best line:
    Showing the double edged genius of the ep (comedy and tragedy) it's either "I don't dance, I echo" by the ballerina or "You know I was cool before I met y'all" by Gunn


    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches
    Inverting the Hollywood cliche; In the end the ballerina fades away, she's free but not as we might have expected her to go free.

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tatt; astonishingly given all the nudity no,10

    Cheap Angel; 9
    He complains he used to be able to get better seats.

    Fang Gang in bondage:
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 3
    Lorne; 3
    Fred; 1

    Fang gang knocked out:
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 3

    Kills: 3 minions for Angel and 1 for Wes
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 39 vamps, 55 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 8 demons.

    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2
    Gunn; 1
    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang: CC and Angel possessed by the spirits of the ballerina and her lover
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed: the ballerina
    46

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat;
    Wes; 5
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: so how far do CC and Angel go? Certainly plenty of above the waist action but probably not all the way. Cordy however confirms her relationship with Phantom Dennis.
    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:
    CC thinks that men would dig 'The Ravager' because she has 6 breasts. The jacket gag, some extremely saucy dialogue between CC and Angel. Lorne comments on Angel's yen for cheerleaders.

    Captain Subtext;
    Fred thinks Gunn is 'pretty'. The entire ep concentrates on the ballet. Lorne calls Angel a variety of pastries.

    Know the face, different character; 4

    Parking garages;
    5,

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;
    Amazed they let Joss away with the shameless plugging of his brother's band. Also amazed that Summer Glau had no acting experience prior to this, she's amazing both acting and dancing. Once again how would CC who was born around 1985 know about Spinal Tap? Wes shows his fencing skill which we saw him practicing with Giles back in SD. For a moment you really think that Wes will turn Iago style on Gunn and Fred but as CC comments he's a gentleman. Always wondered about the little moment when Fred turns to Wes and says 'I thought it would work out another way'. Does she know how Wes feels about her? Is she hinting that she's still interested? Lorne tells Connor the story of the Rat Pack, wonder if he knew Angel hung out with them? Start a "website", nice reach out to the fans.
    Marks out of 10; 10/10 a real treat rivalling OMWF
     
     
  11. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    This was Angel's answer to its counterpart from the concurrent Buffy season 6, OMWF. And not a bad answer. 'Waiting In The Wings' was a fabulous episode of Angel. Loved it. I felt so bad for poor Wesley though. I was rooting for him to get together with Fred :(

    I wish they'd included the deleted scene on the DVD, where Wes and Fred are doing ballet on the stage. That was fantastic, and I'm disappointed they cut it out. Other than that detail, though, the swordfight is cool, the masque henchmen are creepy, the tragic and comic elements are balanced very well, Summer Glau is just awesome, and the ep is indeed a treat for Angel/Cordelia shippers.

    Ace episode.
     
  12. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

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    Jan 26, 2005
    stop calling me pastries!
    :lol:
    love that line!

    everyone looks great in a tux.
    very much like DS9's Badda-Bing Badda-Bang.
     
  13. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    COUPLET

    The Good;
    A not so subtle tale of Angel drawing away from CC, funny but nothing really special UNTIL the final scene with Wes' revelation changing what had been a lightweight ep utterly.

    The Bad;
    Tree demon looks stupid

    Best line:
    Angel; "Life is short, ok not mine but most peoples"
    Jeez, how did they get away with that?

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches
    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tatt; 10

    Cheap Angel; 9 quite the reverse, he's very generous to CC
    Fang Gang in bondage: Gunn and Fred trapped by the tree roots. So is the guy chained to the wall at the brothel but he doesn't want to be released. Or judged.
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 4
    Lorne; 3
    Fred; 2

    Fang gang knocked out:
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 3

    Kills: 1 demon for Gunn and one for Groo
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 39 vamps, 55 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 9 demons.
    Groo; 1 demon

    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2
    Gunn; 1
    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed:
    46

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations: add Groo to the mix
    7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat;
    Wes; 5
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: once again CC drawn to someone with a demon essence
    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:
    CC on the Groo "RRRRrrrrrrr", likes his (admittedly formidable) muscles. CC wants to know if they can 'com without actually shukking'? (Second base?) She plans to rip the Groo's shirt off later, shouldn't she let him get his strength back first? Angel in a brothel not for the first time or I dare say not the last, seems a fun place for all.
    Gunn refers to voodoo booty rituals but he might be making that up.

    Captain Subtext;
    Groo and CC and Fred and Gunn pair up leaving Angel and Wes to wander around like a gay couple. Angel objects to Groo 'handling his weapons' which is nothing to CC asking him to help her have sex with Groo. She also states that 'No women is going to tempt you' which he doesn't take as a compliment. The Madam thinks he and the Groo are a gay couple, Groo mentioning 'his princess'. Poor Wes wonders that Fred thinks of him as a brother.

    Know the face, different character; 4

    Parking garages;
    5,

    Guantanamo Bay;

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Missing scenes;
    Legend has it there was supposed to be a scene where Angel comes across Kate Lochley working as a whore at the brothel (saving up for her new identity as an assistant DA in New York?) but much like the guy chained to the wall she declines to be 'rescued'. You know what they say about hookers/strippers and their daddy issues? Personally I think that sounds more like wishful thinking for some folks at the old Bronze forum, much like the Dr Who 'Amy Pond kissogram/stripper?' debate, I couldn't imagine Elizabeth Rohm coming back from L&O to film it.

    Questions and observations;
    Who wants to bet me that it was Numfar that did the 'Dance of Revolution'? AI still take the occasional paying case in order to fund Connor's college tuition (and presumably CC's holiday). Much in the same way as Buffy seems to increasingly rely on Dawn for her emotional needs as she slowly parts with Riley, Angel seems to get over CC by concentrating his affections on Connor whilst Wes throws himself into his work. Personally I love the Groo and I'm glad to have him on the show. CC refers to her cousin, we know she has no sister but is she an only child? Did you notice that the woman the demon grabs in the park looks the spitting image of Cordy (maybe her stand-in/stunt double?)
    Marks out of 10; 7/10, good fun and you really feel for Angel and Wes
     
  14. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

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    Jan 26, 2005
    Aside from the casting issues, why doesn't Angel ever check up on Kate, the way he does with Faith?

    You'd think that after you saved someone's life by entering their home uninvited, such a miracle might, I don't know, tell you that you two should probably keep in touch? Even an off-screen "oh, I'm 10 minutes late cause I just swung by to check up on Kate," would have been fine. Angel handles so many of his off-screen Buffy adventures that way.

    But we never hear a peep about Kate again. Lilah mentions Lindsey every now and then. Even poor Doyle gets a shout out from time to time. Why no love for Kate?
     
  15. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again... I firmly believe that, had Kate stayed around past season 2, she would have played the story role that eventually went to Justine.

    Kate already had the relative-killed-by-vampires issues, not to mention daddy-never-loved-me issues, which would have led her to be a perfect disciple for Holtz.

    Yes, she seemed to be in detente with Angel after "Epiphany," but she's backslid and changed her mind on that before, and a charismatic and persuasive demon hunter like Holtz could certainly cause her to do it again.

    The fact the Angel miraculously entered Kate's home suggests there was a role for to play for which she needed to be alive, and Justine's role in the abduction of Connor would certainly count as that, when considering Jasmine's ultimate game plan.

    Imagine Kate being the one to slit Wesley's throat and leave him for dead.

    I just can't think of a role she would have played after season 3, that's all.
     
  16. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Australia
    ^Oooh, that would have been cool. Rather than creating a new character, Justine; Kate playing that role in season three would have been fantastic!
     
  17. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010

    Personally I think it's simply that Kate has such a nice send off, she's no longer part of the fight. Until season 6 of course

    LOYALTY
    The Good;
    Really is Wes' ep and he's put through the wringer here. Or so we think, it's nothing compared to what he's going to face...

    The Bad;
    Holtz's spy seems to learn a lot about AI very quickly. Why doesn't Holtz just continue to work with Sahjhan? How can Lilah be so confident in betraying WR&H, what about the mindreaders? Or do they not apply over a certain level of promotion?

    Best line:
    Gunn; (of ice hockey) "You do realise this is the whitest sport known to man?" (obviously never seen synchronised swimming)

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches

    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
    We think Holtz will possibly kill Aubrey for failing him but again he shows great understanding. It's no wonder he commands respect amongst his people so easily (a mirror image of Wes in command?)

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tatt; 10 no because no Cordy at all for the first time in 3 seasons

    Cheap Angel; 9

    Fang Gang in bondage:
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 4
    Lorne; 3
    Fred; 2

    Fang gang knocked out:
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 3

    Kills: 2 vamps for Gunn and Fred nails her first
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 39 vamps, 55 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 10 vamps+ 9 demons.
    Groo; 1 demon
    Fred; 1 vamp

    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2
    Gunn; 1
    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed:
    46

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat;
    Wes; 5
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 1
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Going to add Groo to CC's list and Fred and Gunn to each other
    Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
    Gunn; 1 Fred
    Fred; 1 Gunn
    Groo; 1Cordy

    Kinky dinky:
    Lilah turns a guy down at the bar.

    Captain Subtext;
    Wes and Angel really like a gay couple now.

    Know the face, different character; 4

    Parking garages;
    5,

    Guantanamo Bay;

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;
    Gunn empathises with Audrey after she talks of killing her son. So does Angel but his words have extra resonance for Wes. Holtz actually shows considerable understanding of AI and Angel also observes that he considers Holtz a good man and justified in his need for vengence.
    Lilah talking to her mum is heartbreaking. A staple of fanfic is that no matter what goes wrong for AI Lilah's mum dies and without the need to support her any more she decides to switch sides and help the good guys. How do they twig Aubrey? Has Lorne told them that Holtz is recruiting people like her? Or did Angel's vamp senses simply smell Holtz's scent off her? All the stuff between Lilah and Sahjhan is hilarious. Angel memorised CC's credit card number but in fairness he has given her a big roll of cash for her holiday.
    Marks out of 10; 7/10
     
  18. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    :rolleyes: As David Brin might say, boo-fucking-who:

    Lilah is stone-cold evil. Who cares if she has a mom? You know who else had a mom?
     
  19. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Lilah isn't pure evil as the events of season 4 will prove. But we'll talk about that when we come to it. Lilah and Wes' relationship with her is one of my favourite aspects of the show. Redemption a big theme in the Buffyverse

    SLEEP TIGHT

    The Good;
    The tragedy of Wesley Wyndham Price, it's a powerful 40 minutes, the rug well and truly pulled out from under the viewers feet.

    The Bad;
    Kim's demon transformation and the Rathers generally look stupid but it is effective. Exactly how much of Connor's blood does Lilah have to lace Angel's with? Surely Holtz and Justine should go a little farther than Utah to avoid Angel? (it's a cliche of American fiction that people who go on the run for some reason seldom go outside the US?)

    Best line:
    Wes; "You work for a man who you think is noble and good. I respect that but he's not. I work for a vampire who in fact is noble and good. Quirky but there it is"

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?
    Justine all busted up then SLITTING WES' THROAT!

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches

    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tatt; 10

    Cheap Angel; 9

    Fang Gang in bondage:
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 4
    Lorne; 3
    Fred; 2

    Fang gang knocked out: Lorne by Wes
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 4

    Kills: 1 demon for Gunn and 2 for Angel
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 10 vamps+ 10 demons.
    Groo; 1 demon
    Fred; 1 vamp

    Fang Gang go evil: no but Angel comes damn close when he tears up the Rathers
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2
    Gunn; 1
    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed:
    46

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat; Wes has a pistol, possibly the same one he took from the collector in 'Offspring'. Angel takes a sub-machine gun from Lilah's men and threatens them with it
    Wes; 6
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 2
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
    Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
    Gunn; 1 Fred
    Fred; 1 Gunn
    Groo; 1Cordy

    Kinky dinky:
    Gorgeous but skanky (is there any other kind?) groupies gyrating to the bands appalling music. Looks like Angel was right, musicians get the chicks. The bandleader describes Fred as a hottie and bags 'first ride'. Love Lilah's cat's miaow. Justine and Holtz extremely abusive and twisted relationship. Lilah asks Sahjhan did Angel 'boink his demon bride' and describes him as impotent?

    Captain Subtext;

    Know the face, different character; 4

    Parking garages; no, Angel stalks Lilah in her bar nowadays
    5,

    Guantanamo Bay;
    Angel breaks the arms of Lilah's assistant. Angel tortures' Holtz's people to find Connor.

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;
    Lorne tells Connor the story about The Rat Pack, wonder if Angel ever told him he knew them? Angel talks about hell with Nixon and Britney Spears. Bit unkind to both of them. Angel is a fan of The Flying Nun presumably during the Manilow years, he must have watched a lot of daytime TV in his time (although maybe that goes without saying?). Note Angel would rather Connor would be with Holtz whom he knows would care for him than Lilah who would disect him. Also Holtz pushes Justine aside to stop her following him into hell. What happened to Linwood's policy of leaving Connor alone?
    Marks out of 10; 7/10 humdrum ep until the devestating ending
     
  20. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    FORGIVING

    The Good;
    Some great acting from Amy Acker as Fred is horrified that Connor has been lost to a portal, just as she was. The little girl in the White Room is a really creepy little moppet.

    The Bad;
    Gunn and the orderlies seem to overpower Angel at the hospital very easily (although I guess that settles the whole question of Angelus' confrontation with Xander in 'Killed by death'. Thinking back on the cops/security guards in that scene would probably have had tasers which is weapon that seems to affect vamps a lot. Although bullets are no joke to them either)

    Best line:
    Angel; (heartbroken) "Cordy will be back soon, with presents for Connor"

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?
    Lilah cutting her hand just like Darla, the whole 'women cope better with pain' idea certainly gets a lot of mileage in Joss's shows. Angel meanwhile prepares to stick a needle in Linwood's eye. Angel attempts to smother Wes and is quite prepared to kill Lilah to get his son back. Justine is beaten to a pulp, so much so that even Gunn feels sorry for her. Fred using the hot coals against Sahjhan is pretty damn ruthless.

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches
    Inverting the Hollywood cliche; we think Angel will forgive Wes after he's so compassionate to the poor guy at the accident but oh boy he doesn't! Sahjahn mocks the standard Hollywood buddy-cop thriller. AI are getting hammered by Sahjahn but get saved by Justine?

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tatt;

    Cheap Angel; 9

    Fang Gang in bondage:
    Cordy: 5
    Angel: 11
    Wes: 6
    Gunn; 4
    Lorne; 3
    Fred; 2

    Fang gang knocked out:
    Cordy: 11
    Angel: 14
    Wes: 5
    Doyle; 1
    Gunn; 1
    Lorne; 4

    Kills:
    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
    Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
    Doyle; 1 vamp
    Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
    Kate; 3 vamps
    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
    Gunn; 10 vamps+ 10 demons.
    Groo; 1 demon
    Fred; 1 vamp

    Fang Gang go evil:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 2
    Gunn; 1
    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang:
    Cordy: 2
    Angel: 8

    Characters killed:
    46

    Recurring characters killed;
    8;

    Total number of Angel Investigations:
    7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

    Angel Investigations shot:
    Angel: 11
    Wes; 1

    Packing heat; Gunn refers to the shotgun Wes keeps that we saw in Epiphany
    Wes; 6
    Doyle; 1
    Angel; 2
    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
    Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
    Gunn; 1 Fred
    Fred; 1 Gunn
    Groo; 1Cordy

    Kinky dinky:
    Angel tell Justine he isn't her boyfriend and she should find someone else to smack her around.

    Captain Subtext;
    Sahjhan once again demonstrates his insecurity about his masculinity, insisting he flitted in a 'manly way'

    Know the face, different character; 4

    Parking garages;
    5,

    Guantanamo Bay;
    Linwood get's kidnapped and threatened with torture

    Buffy characters on Angel; 16
    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;
    Shouldn't Linwood know who Lorne is? Surely Lorne's concern for humans and disregard for 'slimy demons' is hypocritical. Like any good Watcher Wes keeps comprehensive diaries. Why do people always cut the palm of their hands in films? Surely that's one of the most sensitive parts?
    Marks out of 10; 8/10 here comes the emotional pain but it's SUPREMELY well done.
     

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