Ancient Aliens

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by BillJ, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I want to to sit back and try to envision this, regardless what ya you think about my posts:

    Picture that you were a primative person, say some shepard somewhere in Greece or whatever. A spaceship lands and outsteps these alien beings with incredible technology, I could easily see some of these people thinking those guys were gods. And if we were genetically manipulated or altered, maybe they used their own genes to make us, like the whole "we were created in god's image" Also, while still on the bible, one bit in Genesis always confused me was of being fruitful and replenishing the Earth....replenish what, though? It tells me there was once a state of plenishment, at some earlier time. Hell, one thing that annoys some folks is when I suggest their Christ might have been an alien...I mean he supposedly had all these gnarly powers, I could see some alien being do that. I say this since legends, myth and scriptures like that often have some hint of truth to them in some form.

    Also, some of the other folks, like the Native Americans say not only were the sky people from the stars, but they themselves come from there, too. I talk often to the old Indian guys when they have their pow wows in my neck of the woods, and have conversations with them when possible, and they are probably the best examples of anicent aliens, and they themselves say so.
     
  2. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not really, it is included in the Apocrypha and read by Catholics and Orthodox.
    Okay I am NOT trying to slag off at your mom but my first thought was, puncture marks? Addict. Object behind ear? Tumor. Let's hope my cynicism is horribly off the mark.

    See.. there you trip up. Can't even recognize? I would like cites for that. The universe is ENORMOUS and I will never be one to say "there are no aliens" or even "people's weird ass stories are all crap". But we have many wonderful tools to test such claims and it does believers (any believers) cause good to happily test and provide proofs.
    Dude, crop circles have been utterly disproved. I would not waste your time. I am sure there are other mysteries which have far more oomph.

    As to "helping hand" and "influenced us", where would you speculate this has happened? Because everything seems pretty fucked as it is. I think if they have no prime directive they should be stepping up the interference levels.
     
  3. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Just to let you know, I may have my fun but I am not dissing your posts. I am genuinely interested in other people's beliefs and I am happy for people to share them.

    The word means "fill". So it doesn't automatically refer to filling something that has depleted. Blame it on the KJV.

    So from this I get that.. you don't believe in a divine power? You think there is a naturalistic reason behind everything, even if that reason is aliens?
     
  4. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I think your 'even if' was superfluous, teacake.
     
  5. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    To answer your question, I do not know. My own beliefs, I am spiritual, not religious....I believe in a high power, but not in the form of an angy old man sitting on top of a golden throne. I believe in higher powers and an afterlife, because one two occasions, I have seen what appears, as one might call a 'ghost' I saw a figure of a man who I learned was the father of a friend of mine, I described him perfectly she said, even down to his messy hair and favorite clothes, and I enver saw the guy when he was alive. Same for a girl in the grade school I went to in the 80's. Last year I saw her figure in a hallway during a rummage sale, and talked to a few of the women present, and I later was able to find the mother of this person and I pointed to a picture I found in the yeat book and it was that person. I enver seen the person, before either. And no, I do not use drugs, drink or other chemical substances if anyone was gonna ask.

    Also, I kinda have, Decakrd's gonna have a ball with this one, with Picard's answer to the universe and death in a Where Sience had Lease

    "Considering the marvelous complexity of the universe, its clockwork perfection, its balances of this against that, matter, energy, gravitation, time, dimension, I believe that our existence must be more than either of these philosophies. That what we are goes beyond Euclidean or other "practical" measuring systems, and that our existence is part of a reality beyond what we understand now as reality."

    I believe in both science and spirituality needing to come together. I also believe there is SOMETHING beyond our plane of existence and that we are not merely going to be a pile of lifeless meat when we check out. I have seen so many strange and amazing things to think that all the universe and beyond consists of only taxes and a 6 foot hole in the ground and then there's nothing. All we claim to know is really just speculation on our parts.

    With that out of the way, I got no clue about the gods the aliens worship, of they even worship one at all. But what I can say to religious folks (mainly bible belt Christians and Evangelicals) who got a problem with aliens....lemme tell you this....many religions, like the Native Americans, the Hindu, the Muslims, all believe in life out there in the stars, on other worlds.....and many priests in the colonial days of our county, and our founding Fathers, especially Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson believed in alien life....and even the Vatican, a few years ago, said that belief in alien life does NOT negate in the belief in god. Forthose who said alien life would destroy belief in God, mainly the Brookings Report fuckheads when NASA was being created (I always veiwed the Brookings Report as a corrupt, twisted, self imposed type of Trek's Prime Directive that needs to go) or that it would make us no longer 'special' or god's greatest creation....a few things:

    1: If we are all there is, god sure has a small mind and limited power...plus vey impractical, due to the fact that the universe is a rather large place.
    2: If we are god's greatest creation, he/she/it needs practise, since we are not doing so well, and he/she/it is flawed right there.
    3: If anything, alien life should make your god GREATER and all that.
    4: The bible belt folks have a whole new species to try and convert and 'save'.

    I really don't know what theology, if any, the aliens have. Plus I don't know if they have them that if they have just one, or many.....if there is a god, it's possible he/she/it created us, if he/she/it created them as well. I have no clue.

    Also, I feel that we have to know what the truth is, and I do not think the stock market will crumble or that religions will collapse or that we'll all go crazy and kill each other regarding the 100% abosolute truth regarding alien life is disclosed, and think we gotta do it and lets the chips fall where they may.
     
  6. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Surely, the native myths and that American Indians are human, make it more likely that the aliens aren't aliens, but an ancient advanced human civilization. They're knowledge of human psychology is why they stay intermittently involved with Earth. To let us evolve as much as possible with self determination, but interfering enough to keep the baser violent aspects of human nature to get the better of us. Thus the rare visits of 'gods' like Kukulkan, Krishna, Jesus, Buddha and other advanced society changing great minds of the past.
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, because the naturalistic reason could be evolution. He seems to be ascribing to aliens what had traditionally been ascribed to divinity. I was curious as to whether he had a belief in a god as well.
     
  8. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Actually no, no proof was given, and I'l ltell you why.
    Those two drunk elderly English guys only showed how to make a crudely made circle with a board and string.....yet, I look and read the interviews of these guys....and compare it to the amazing circles and formations showing incredible, mathmatical properties and tetrahedral geometry......I seriously think those two guys coould not even spell tetrahedron, let alone know any geometry. Also, their circles, besides crude and sloppy are nothing compared to the incredible ones I've seen for the past 20 years...plus if they did it, they never showed how to make these mega intricate circles, never shown. If they show how they do these, and inthe short time, often overnight, at which these appear...then I could consider them an answer. Also, if they admitted to doing it, why do they keep doing it is they are the guity ones?

    Plus, like I said, I doubt a pair of old, tipsy English guys could make these:

    http://www.earthfiles.com/images/news/U/UKHackpenWheat082612.jpg

    http://www.earthfiles.com/images/news/G/GermanyAndechsPattern073012.jpg

    http://www.earthfiles.com/images/news/U/UKAllington072912.jpg
    And given that now more and more are having binary coded messages, that even sheds more doubt on those old, drunken fools. Those designs above, plus many more I've seen sure give a lot of oooomph, if you ask me.

    And as for intervention, I mentioned that many instances, made by people from the military, came foreward and talked about how they encountered UFO's that 'turned off' their nucealr misisle silos......I think that's pretty much a good deal of intervention on their part.....intervening when they really, really need to. It's like when you have 2 bratty kids ready to get into a fight, and each grabs a big, pointy stick. If you walked by them and saw this, if one is a responsible person, you'd go and stop the fight, and that their sticks from then. I think they've intervined many times.
     
  9. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Well, judging from cave painting, statues and so on, many of them were not human looking either. I am not saying it's not the case, but I don't see how that reason is more acceptible than an actual ET visitation.
     
  10. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My personal theology is that the most important thing in our lives is relationships, whether that be lovers, children or some dude we chat to at the bus stop.
    I absolutely agree with this. This is why I, naturally and perhaps narrowly skeptical about the existence of aliens cannot dismiss the possibility. It stems from a belief in something greater than what we see, perhaps no more than a faith or hope in such a thing. Whatever.. personal god, great net of energy, faux quantum physics.. they all point to it being rather more likely that there is someone out there than that there is not.

    I answered this question recently when some troll IRL asked me if I believed in aliens (it was a dig at Star Trek):

    If there IS a god, then what seems more likely, that we would be the only life god ever created or that in this vast universe god would have created more life?

    If there IS nothing but evolution then what seems more likely, that we are the only planet that ever evolved life or that in this vast universe more life would have evolved?

    So. I'm no believer but as far as the odds go I'm thinking we are not alone.
     
  11. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can't see any of those links, they all come up forbidden :(

    I would like to read the proof that nuclear missile silos were turned off.
     
  12. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    To me, there's more than relationships that's important, myself, I feel that finding knowledge and answers to really big questions is the important part. If an alien vessel landed by here and the aliens offered me a chance to get the hell off this rock, and see what's out there, though I'd might never get to come back, I'd just grab a suitcase of extra clothes, my cat, and hop on the ship.

    As I mentioned, if something has good substance to it, it does become accepted later on.....people, especially in authority postions used to believe in these:

    The Earth is Flat
    Man can not fly
    Man will never go to the moon

    And those sure as hell changed in time. I feel this shall as well, regarding alien life. Only those with something to lose will panic.
     
  13. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, messed up the quotes, this is mine that The Castellan is responding to.


    Simply applying Occams razor, there's we know humans are here and evolved here. There's nothing needed to prove their existence. True extra-terrestrials require proof of existing at all, that existing they have the technology and will to come here, coming here that there would be any interest in interacting with us. Sure, they may exist, but there needs to be more than supposition. As mentioned earlier, primitive man wouldn't know what to make of our own modest technology. What would they, or us, make of human civilization 10,000 years from now, adapted to life in space with technology to match?
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You know what would really upset me? If I die in my eighties in bed and one week later aliens make first contact. I've let my family know how angry I will be about this so if such a thing occurs their excitement over first contact is tempered by their pangs knowing I missed it.
     
  15. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Well, here's where I got the pictures:
    http://www.earthfiles.com/ Good site, and Linda has won the Emmy for her work and other rewards for her journalism. You'll find the pictures there, amongst other things. I tune into the radio when she's on and she does appear on Ancient Aliens.

    And I believe the military folks who are now coming out after all these years and speaking of their experiences, the ones they were told 'never happened' by their superiors. And I commend them. Search around that site for those ones, and remember, do your own research as well, that's the best way to do it.
     
  16. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    As to the Earth being flat, only landlubbers ever thought that. Seafarers throughout history knew otherwise.

    Man cannot fly.

    I never heard of anyone saying man will never go to the Moon.
     
  17. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Problem is,especially in western culture, the topic is taboo, and many are afraid to speak of it, in fear people will ridicule them or laugh at them. I've had quite a few tin foil hat jokes thrown at me, some from this very site, but I don't let it stop me. But some folks are. Also, we know that our governments never really work in our best interests....they lie about everything....even the media cristisizes them, EXCEPT when it comes to UFO topics, THEN they believe anything they say. Also, we been lied to for years, be it weapons of mass destruction, justification for Vietnam, and so on. I spoke to a few of the people from Roswell and other sites where stuff was said to have crashed...and they, both the old timers that were adults there, and the ones who were kids, state that when the military arrived, they were treated extremely bad....told to be quiet and were threatend with bodily harm and even death, not only to them, but to their children....now if only one o two people said this, it would be a so-so story, but many have said this....be it residents of the town, or the Native Americans who lived near by. I see nothing that's justified by threated people, especially kids, about anything.....and we all know who crooked and corrupt people in power is. Happens all over, and America is not immune, we're probably the worst in that field.

    And call me crazy, but I'd rather believe the words of regular, honest folks like you and me than some politician in a suit or some officer in uniform....especially seeing as how crappy our world is doing these days. And there should be othing wrong to ask questions, especially ones that not many ask, regarding things, especially if the answers could change the world as we know it. We need to be able to ask the questions and NOT be punished or branded as a lunatic for asking them.
     
  18. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Actually not even landlubbers thought that - the flat earth thing is only an 18th century invention, really. A gag that went too far.

    The fact of the Earth being spheroid had been known since at least Ancient Greece - Columbus (and others) merely thought it was a lot smaller than it is, and didn't anticipate there being enough room for a whole extra continent...
     
  19. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Here's what I don't understand about abductions. Supposedly they have been abducting humans and probing them for centuries now. Surely they, Mr. Interstellar Travellers, have found out everything there is to know by now? They are already FAR beyond us in science and probing science and yet they still keep scooping people up and examining them.

    How many cows do we dissect to find out more about cows these days? And we're primitives!

    I can't help but suspect there is some sadism involved here. Either that or they are getting paid by their authorities for the "research", like the Japanese with the whales.
     
  20. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I like the Supernatural theory that it's actually a mischievous demon messing with us.