AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    ^ (1) Headshots. Gotta luv 'em. But as we saw in the final episode, only the brain STEM appears to be reactivated by the zombie-causing virus. That leads me to further believe that a headshot might not actually destroy one, depending upon shot placement. We see our heroes shooting their way through groups of Zs and dropping them with headshots, and I can imagine the hydrostatic shock jarring the brain stem enough to drop the Z in such a manner, but we don't linger on the scene long enough to see if the Zs who didn't suffer a traumatic brain STEM injury get back to their feet or not. That is food for thought.

    And all of the sights you mentioned are most excellent. But you're firing on an erratically moving object that may or may not be moving predictably...the Z in question might have a leg or foot injury that makes it limp from side to side, or may be missing a limb that throws it off balance for a hard kill. Uninjured insurgents are a little more predictable to shoot, and a center-mass shot is sufficient for that purpose. Zs don't drop with center-mass shots. You can focus on the "healthier" Zs who don't limp or who move slower, but that doesn't deter the gimps who are homing in on you while you make the easier shots.

    (3) Number of bullets...I agree that it would be a highly-sought-after skill set the day after a zombie contagion outbreak, but if you know how to handload your own ammo, odds are you're already well set-up to handle this kind of a situation, or can be in short order, and thusly your skills aren't going to be made available to the general public. And as it's been pointed out elsewhere, the gun stores and pawn shops are likely to be (1) completely empty or (2) barricaded and loaded for bear and not letting anyone else in. Well, perhaps Andrea or Lori could, ahem, "barter" for something to gain admittance, but the rest of the group would be SOL...

    (4) Logistics...good idea! The HEMTT is awesome. But in addition to all of the above problems, I think you'd see guys taking HEMTTs for themselves, to go looking for their families. I think you'd see desertions; certainly you'd se significant breaks in the logistics chain at various points as areas became overrun and began looking out for themselves. A Cav unit defending Atlanta against several million Zs might be written off.

    And the most important distinction of all...our disorganized, infighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes are all on their own, no help, no guidance, no Emergency Broadcast System instructions, little sleep, constantly on guard against walkers, just barely hanging on to their sanity and their lives. There's no government agency coming to the rescue, no one saying "Go (here) for help". We are seeing everything as it is happening to them, with no significant lapse of time in between episodes; everything that is happening, from the time Rick finds the group to the events of the CDC, appears to be in the span of 48-72 hours. It's a lot for a group of civs to overcome.

    For the record, I wholeheartedly agree with you about wondering of the fate of the military. We see a lot of stopped tanks and vehicles, but not a whole helluva lot of dead soldiers. It does stand to reason, logically, that the military must have written Atlanta off and retreated to parts unknown. Benning? Perhaps. Maybe we will find out. A throwaway line explaining their abscence would go a long way towards helping the "suspension of disbelief" that is so important in the weaving of a tale like this.

    But the only guy who seemed to know anything, anything at all, was Dr. Jenner, and he seemed very disinclined to talk about conditions in the outside world in any kind of great detail, whether because he did not know or did not care. For what it's worth, I can surmise that he did not know the details because it wasn't pertinent to his work in the CDC; maybe someone alive on the outside could make use of his work and maybe not, but he was too busy studying the virus and effects to be watching CNN. As a scientist, I doubt communications protocols or fixing a broken satellite dish or whatever was preventing him from reaching someone was within his skill set. And he had bigger fish to fry.

    Hope this helps.
     
  2. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Image Comics has recently announced a "Walking Dead Weekly" series that reprints the entire series, week by week. Contact your local comic book store for details.

    I would be remiss if I didn't mention Comic Book Supermarket, at www.comicbooksupermarket.com, right here in Omaha, where new issues are 35% off and bagged and boarded for your viewing convenience. Tell Mitch that Jeff sent you.
     
  3. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know how to the little "spoiler alert" bar, so I just gotta say it.

    *************** SPOILER ALERT****************

    Yes, I believe Jenner discovered Lori was pregnant. She was pregnant in the comic book series, and it was all up in the air whether or not the baby was Rick's or Shane's (for that matter, we don't know even in the comic series, much less the AMC show, if Lori and Shane were screwing even before the Rise so it could date from then...we do know that Lori and Rick were having some issues before he was shot) before it all became a moot point for the gang.

    But I would hazard a guess that (1) Jenner told Rick that Lori was pregnant and (2) that he saw Shane get nasty with Lori on a video circuit; being a smart guy, he put two and two together even if he didn't have the sound turned up on that particular camera. I would even go so far as to venture that Andrea might also be pregnant with Dale's child. In the comic series they are an item, though she does not conceive. Jenner might even have told Andrea she was pregnant, thus causing the in-shower crying jag we witnessed; then again, she might just have been crying with the stress of all she had been through, now that she was in a position of relative safety and able to let loose.
     
  4. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    i am also thinking Andrea as well who was pregnant (my wife is just finishing her morning sickness ) ...but it would be kinda creepy if Dale was the father, as he seems more like a father to the WHOLE group, especially to Andrea & her sister.

    Perhpas we'll see a flahs back for Andrea regarding the baby?
     
  5. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    I have issues 1-6 which have letters columns, but issues 7-24 I only have in trade paperback format, which does not include the letters columns...but I would imagine people asked Kirkman, "Hey! Why didn't your peeps go to the CDC?" Perhaps they are retconning a missing development from the comic series. I know if I were in Rick's spot, I'd think a recon of the CDC would be a worthwhile trip before leaving Atlanta behind forever. Don't know if I would have taken the whole group just in case it turned out to be a dry hole, but I would have snooped-and-pooped across town to see for myself. He did see the helicopter when he arrived in the city, so SOMEONE was organized, and it stood to reason it might have been the CDC, which would certainly have taken the lead in this whole zombie apocalypse thing.

    I would imagine that whoever was giving the orders at that point, as well as the troops carrying them out, were scared shitless, several of their buddies had already gotten snacked upon, and they started shooting everyone who looked all bloody...including doctors and nurses wearing bloodstained scrubs from treating victims.

    Or they just started opening fire when startled by the Zs coming in right behind them and devouring them...
     
  6. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    All good points. But I think I'd still be disenclined to go anywhere near the military after seeing that.
     
  7. PsychoPere

    PsychoPere Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The code is [ spoiler="description" ] spoiler here [ /spoiler ]. Alternatively, when you're in the Editor, it's the last option on the formatting bar (the face with the "x" for a mouth).

    It may never have been explicitly stated by the characters, but the way the situation is handled makes it pretty damn clear that Shane was Judith's father.

    If anyone is pregnant, it's Lori because the dramatic storytelling possibilities are far greater with her than with Andrea.

    Andrea and Dale do start a relationship in the comics, and the television series has already started laying the foundation for that down the road.
     
  8. Zombie

    Zombie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That would be cool. A MMORPG.
     
  9. Zombie

    Zombie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not only that but what about the people in the factories and gas stations and warehouses?

    What good is a supply line if the first point in the line, the manufacturer, can no longer operate?

    You can have all the trucks in the world but if you don't have oil coming into the country to be turned into gas you've got nothing when the oil reserves in the country go out.

    Then of course can you get everyone in uniform? How many people for the national guard or the reserves are actually going to show up for duty?

    We've seen some wandering around as Zombies but I do agree there is a chance they retreated but I think it more likely that things broke down to far and they just took off.
     
  10. Zombie

    Zombie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    From what I understand Kirkman didn't take them to the CDC in the comics because he didn't know the CDC was in Atlanta. Had he known they would have gone there.
     
  11. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I'd stand in line on release day for something like that. A free roaming zombie game along the lines of RDR, where its more important to move stealthily, avoiding zombies, and the ocassional crazed survivor as you gather food, potential weapons and gear and look for a safe place to hold up. Of course throw in optional travelling companions you meet along the way who can either be a huge help, just slow you down, or turn coward or lose it at the wrong moment and nearly get you killed.
     
  12. Caliburn24

    Caliburn24 Commodore Commodore

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    Interesting rationalizations, and I agree, having seen only six episodes and being largely sheltered from any larger view of the world we can't dogmatically argue one way or another.

    Two nitpicks however. The US Strategic Petroleum Reserve. the largest in the world, has a 160 day supply of oil on hand. I think it was mentioned at some point that they were at day 60 something since the zombie thing started? There should be plenty of petrol around, assuming distribution(a big assumption) continued.

    As to headshots being the only way to stop a walker. Unless the CDC doctor was keeping physical changes to walkers a secret, the only change is in the brain stem. That means over-pressure(which is the the main way bombs kill people) will kill walkers as sure as a headshot. Whether the brain is turned to mush by a bullet or over-pressure, the end result is the same. Also, limb wounds and such might not kill a walker instantly, but they still have blood, they still have internal organs that require certain processes to work. Just because walkers are governed by pure instinct doesn't make their biology any different from ours. They'll bleed out just like any other human.
     
  13. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But then what do you do if you get to day 160 and you haven't "won"? You run out of fuel and get eaten is what, so the more logical course of action is to pull back, conserve resources to just a handful of strong points and dig in for a long siege.

    In the first episode we saw a "walker" that was basically a half eaten torso, complete with a full exposed rib cage and the thing was still going, so I don't think bleeding out is an issue.

    I have WWZ open here and there is a mention of...bugger it, I'll just quote a few paragraphs from the Battle of Yonkers chapter. (I don't usually like to quote this much but I think it all seams pertinent enough.)
    The next bit goes on about them basically running out of ammo because of a lack of foresight then the line breaks when Land Warrior basically allows a handful of soldiers to spread panic when they get a headshot but no kill (as in the bullet goes through the head and misses the brain) and it all goes to shit. Keep in mind though that this part of the book is relatively early in the crisis, the "war" itself doesn't really begin until much later, by which point the military had leant it's lessons and adapted to the new threat.
    There's even a later "interview" with this same character as he describes how they retook the country...on foot...armed mostly with just modified entrenchment tools and semi-automatic rifles.

    Of course for all I know this could all be BS, but to a layman it seams pretty well researched.
     
  14. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    To add to the first nitpick, the Strategic Reserve accomodates ALL U.S. usage (personal consumption AND manufacturing consumption), so if it is all accessible and well rationed out, it might conceivably last even longer than 160 days. Once the powers-that-be saw the extent of the situation, I really don't think more tanker trucks would be heading to the local QuikMart to replenish those tanks. Those resources would be dedicated to military response and civilian evacuation (if any). So our intrepid group might not be able to find gas as gas stations would be emptied out by people trying to get the hell out of Dodge, or burned to the ground by people starting a firefight around the place.

    Regarding headshots, if the bullet entered the Z's eye sockets or mouth and blew right through the back of the skull, there might not have been enough energy dumped into the target for hydrostatic shock to pulp the brain stem; in much the same fashion that a 9mm (or even a 5.56 at close velocity that doesn't tumble) will frequently blow through a human target without dropping it immediately, hence the preference for .45 and .40 rounds, which tumble and fragment and deposit more of the round's energy into the target.

    Someone else already handled the bleed-out portion.
     
  15. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    ^ I am enjoying the conversation and plot holes, though; clearly you've given this some thought!
     
  16. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^I'm sure you already realise this, but I just thought I should emphasise some fundamentally questionable assumptions there. ;)
    If people everywhere (military and civies) always behaved rationally in a time of crisis then I'm pretty sure wars would have gone out of fashion centuries ago.

    I have to say this is a fun discussion. I wonder what it is about these end-of-the-world scenarios that makes them so engaging when logically they should be just terrifying.
     
  17. Yukikaze

    Yukikaze Cadet Newbie

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    If we surmise that it (whatever it is in the end) infected the entire population, killed (and then resurrected) a large portion - say 60-70% - then I'm sure that this would also have taken place within the military - wouldn't it?
    It's not like all military instalations are sealed airtight and the air filtered for the cause of what has been killing all the people.
    And in this case a large portion of your supporting personnel (logistics, maintenance) as well as a sizable portion of your fighting force would also be sick-gone-resurrected just like that (perhaps even in a matter of hours/days?), removing a large nummber of people with the training to fight the enemy as a cohesive force.
     
  18. FluffyUnbound

    FluffyUnbound Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Reverend,

    The problem with that World War Z excerpt is pretty straightforward:

    Slow zombies can't climb. So they have absolutely no way around or over any obstacle the height of a man or taller.

    Slow zombies also don't have the brain power to detect traps.

    You set up tall barriers, you lure the zombies up against those barriers by waving at them or what have you, and you kill them. All day. Or once they're stacked up against your barrier a kilometer deep, you helicopter out and napalm the site.

    An enemy that can't hide, can't retreat, can't stop himself from advancing, and can't overcome simple obstacles isn't really an enemy. He's an annoyance.

    Brooks made that battle work by having the military be too dumb to set up a simple stone wall 8 feet high in front of the advancing zombies. Or if there was no time for stone, city busses lined up nose-to-tail.
     
  19. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You've essentially described what they did later in the book. The point of that chapter was to show hubris at work. The character being interviewed points out a number of things that were done wrong, not least of which was setting up positions at ground level rather than on roof tops or in windows where they'd be protected. As I said, in the narrative of the story the "Battle of Yonkers" is a disaster and a wake up call.

    It's easy to sit back and poke holes in any unsuccessful military strategy in history; I mean what idiot tries to invade Russia in winter and what complete moron tries the same thing over a century after the last guy failed? Generals are hardly immune from stupidity.
     
  20. Canadave

    Canadave Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Yup. I believe they repeat the line "The military is always extremely well-prepared for the last war they fought" (or something to that effect) a number of times.