Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, Oct 30, 2010.
You'll have to forgive me for not reading through 40 pages of posts before asking.
Cracked lays it out the best I have seen. 7 Scientific Reasons a Zombie Outbreak Would Fail(Quickly).
Very funny, and well written little piece.
But I'm not really looking for a scientifically accurate zombie apocalypse.
I just want some reasonable explanation for how civilization falls with all its mighty armies and massive resources. Yet our ten or so idiots in a magical self-repairing RV survive, all while bickering and beating each up, not noticing the machine guns laying all around or even having the good sense to fort up in a remote hard walled building somewhere.
I like the show more than almost anything else on TV at the moment, but there is a reality disconnect that is jarring for a show trying to stay so grounded and realistic.
If too much blood got into the water table that would make zombie rain.
But it they haven't mentioned it, I doubt it happened.
Some people just have lucky breaks.
This is a cool book, and series, and all that, but I'd really like to see them film Philip Nutman's novel Wet Work. That has different 'stages' of undead, if you can believe it; some of them are the slow, shambling 'dumb' zombies we're used to seeing, others are the super-fast variety, all the way up to intelligent, thinking zombies that retain their personality and memories and can do everything we can, like talk, drive cars, put on new clothes, organize ambushes ("Body patrol, come and bag our food!") using guns, etc.
Failing that, I'd go for the possessed-by-aliens angle that another book (which I can't remember at the moment) used. I think that's the only actual 'realistic' zombie portrayal that could be done. There's no other way a dead body could become reanimated; biology just doesn't work that way.
That's not the point of the series.
Yeah...they probably nit picked "Darmok " & "Inner Light", and thought they were bad episodes.
Just taking the series for what it is, a zombie story, it’s not too bad. But the last TV show that really kept my interest was nu-BSG and this doesn’t even come close and frankly shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence. I’ll watch the next season though just because I’m interested in seeing what happens to the people and if they ever get out of this mess and recreate Earth.
As to the show itself, its best moment came in the opening episode where our hero tracks down that half a zombie lady in the park and says “I’m sorry this happened to you” before he shoots her. There just wasn’t a really good moment after that for me.
In any zombie story you're going to have to go with a little suspesion of disbelief, or else give the zombies or its cause some extraordinary powers.
The problem I see with a lot of these thread is that people have seen too many movies. They expect that if the dead started to rise, they'd suddenly turn into John Rambo: Zombie Killer. When in fact, most people would hesitate, get frightened, or freak out completely when faced with a horde of partly decayed creatures covered in blood and gory wounds. And probably smelling to high heaven too.
Actually if you're interested in this sort of thing, I'd suggest tracking down a copy of the Zombie Combat Manual http://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Combat...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291775053&sr=1-1 It really is a well done and researched book rather than a quicky knock-off of Max Brooks' book.
* I can see how zombies could be easy to defeat if it occured in pockets that could be isolated and held in check. But if it occurred everywhere at the same time?
* In some ways, fighting zombies is easier. They don't shoot back, or really have any real weapons apart from their bare hands. Otoh, theres no such thing as a wounded zombie. Shoot a human opponent in an arm, leg, or chest, and they're pretty much down for the count. Humans can also be intimidated, or knocked out by concussion weapons, flash-bangs, or shrapnel. The same shot will only slow a zombie down for a few seconds. (another reason I also really recomend anyone track down a copy of WWZ. It really does cover a lot of this stuff in detail)
* And yes, many people have guns. But how many, apart from a few 'gun nuts' have more than a few boxes of anno lying around? That plus the fact that unless you're a hardcore gang-banger, or combat vet, you're likely to have a problem with, or even hesitate to shoot anther person. No matter how bad-ass you think you might be.
Theres also the problem that, despite what we see in the show, making consistant head shots isn't that easy, unless you're right up in the zombies face.
Just my $.02.
This piece of news makes me go :
This is amazing on so many levels.
Can't say I blame him. Who wouldn't want to be a zombie onscreen? Just God forbid the show starts turning into 'Celebrity Zombie Cameo of the Week'
Great article. Interesting about the zombie porn.
I think people would be wigged out the first day, but they'd very quickly get used to thinking of zombies as subhuman (which, after all, they are) and after that, the main problem would be the bullet supply. People are perfectly capable of dehumanizing other people who are not dead, decaying, and trying to eat them, so I really don't see the problem, after everyone gets over the initial shock.
And any celebrity who wants to be a zombie on this show should have to agree to play themselves. Imagine how much fun they could have when the gang makes their way to what remains of Hollywood...
...in one year!
I think this wait is going to be painful.
Yeah, he won't even require makeup or anything.
The chapter covering the Battle of Yonkers is definitely worth checking out. It's a very plausible scenario on how the military could FUBAR the whole thing up.
Every single person on the planet in the comic book is infected with the Zombie cells. I won't say virus anymore because virus is the wrong word.
You die of any cause you come back a Zombie. (unless your death involves having your brain destroyed)
Shock and awe. Plus sheer numbers on the Zombie side.
Bombs don't work. You can't attack the Zombie general because there isn't one. You can't even use chemical weapons.
The Zombie is truly an Army of One.
Throw in that a significant chunk of our armed forces are over seas plus you've all been trained to fight humans and you may have a problem.
Doesn't do any good when your supply lines are mangled by Zombies. Or when you run out of ammo and gas. Or when soldiers start thinking of their families.
And sure you've got Atlanta roped off but what about all the other cities?
I think it would be longer then 48 hours. If only because politicians don't want to get on TV and say, "The dead are coming back to life to eat you."
I'd bet there are millions of Zombies with bullet holes on them except for the one place a bullet should be: the head.
There are other survivors.
Yeah. Because the military didn't understand how to effectively fight Zombies. Had they know they would have been on the roof of the Department store shooting Zombies from the top instead of being on the street level with millions of Zombies attacking them.
There comes a point where sheer numbers will overwhelm any force. Zombies don't run and hide. They don't have strategy and tactics. They don't surrender. They don't stop. They simply come at you like tsunami.
Then stop watching. Are we going to have to go through the whole series with you complaining?
The M-1 Abrams is a fuel hog. What do you do when you can't get fuel because the un-armored trucks get over run by Zombies?
On this I would agree but they really didn't have time in front of the CDC to grab these things since the building blew up and no doubt attracted the attention of every Zombie for 30 miles to start heading towards the CDC.
This is actually perfect and makes the most sense. The Zombie stuff spreads through out the population like the flu. Lot's of people get sick and die and come back. Of course others dying from non-Zombie deaths come back too.
Throw in bureaucratic slowness in understanding what they are truly facing and the world collapses.
Yeah but whens the last time you fought 10,000 human beings at the same time? And by that I mean you personally versus all 10,000. (I just pulled 10,000 out of the air but it could be thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions)
They repaired the RV. Eventually they get to "fort up" but I just know you'll complain about that.
With all that said I think in real life in order for a "zombie plague" to have a chance of overwhelming the world it would have to be like Jax said. Everyone gets infected and then a significant chunk of people get sick and die. Enough people to overwhelm any response. Even then humanity would survive in much better shape then is shown so far in the Walking Dead or other Zombie movies.
Other then that scenario we are too well versed in the ways of the Zombie. We know what to do.
Man could you imagine the two plus billion people in China and India turning into Zombies? Now that would be a survival nightmare.
I like the show, but nothing is more boring to me than people gushing over how good something is. Complaining and critiquing are much more fun and stimulating.
As to listening to me complain, its your choice to read message boards, if you expect everyone to agree with your opinion you might want to find a different venue.
As to all the Max Brooks fanboys out there pushing the, "Plausible Zombie Apocalypse" argument and citing WWZ as evidence, I'll just remind you of two things. Max has never served in the military nor have firsthand experience with it.
Government bureaucracy is slow and inflexible. An armored cavalry troop is not. When cut loose from restraints, as happens when you see one person die(trust me, saw it all the time in Iraq) all the by the book crap goes away and you get down to the lean and mean business of killing people and protecting your own. A single canister round from one of our tanks could wipe out that 10,000 zombie wave and each tank can hold several dozen of those rounds. A single radio message on our tactical net tells us that only head shots work.
And I would point out that we actually do have historical records of human wave attacks of upwards of tens of thousands of fire-arm equipped, fast moving, intelligent human soldiers, aided by indirect fires support and close air support. AND THEY GOT DESTROYED by 1940s technology. We have numerous advances in weaponry today that would make human wave attacks even less effective(claymores, integral optics, assault rifles).
But then we get the counterarguments. Zombies don't stop coming until you put a bullet in their brain. Shock and Awe won't stop them. And you'll run out of bullets and your logistical situation will be screwed before the zombies run out of bodies(as if some zombie general is in the back urging his soldiers, "C'mon men, they're low on ammo, one more push!")
1) Headshots. The entire US army now uses optics on their rifles. M68 red dot sights, EOTech holographic sights, Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights(ACOG and my personal sight). Look them up, or better yet go try one out. Headshots out to a couple hundred meters are not hard with the M4-M16 and a decent optic.
2) Who needs Shock and Awe when your opponent has no mind, and no intelligence? Don't buy into that Bush-era crap, the military is still all about killing people and breaking things. And it is the one thing we excel at(besides drinking enormous qualities of cheap booze).
3) Number of bullets. Sure in China it might be a problem. In the USA? Hell no. Aside from vast stockpiles, reloading brass is not that difficult. I have several neighbors who make their own ammunition. It might not be a common skill set today, but it sure would be about a day after a zombie outbreak.
4) Logistics. Always a problem. But the Army's 16-ton up-armored HEMT truck which I have driven across rivers, three feet of mud(I think an ocean of zombie blood would be less taxing on the truck personally) is the standard deliverer of bullets, beans and fuel. We have more than 13,000 of these trucks, and each could run over a hundred thousand zombies on the way to deliver its cargo and be perfectly fine.
But again, while this argument is fun. It is also a rabbit-trail.
In the Walking Dead the government and military fell, and I have no problem with that. If that is the premise the show is operating under, great, groovy I'm down with that.
All I would like is some throw-away line about why our disorganized, in-fighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes have survived where an organization ideally suited to surviving has not.
It could be something as simple as, "The anthrax vaccine all our soldiers are injected with made them susceptible to an air-born strain of zombie-ism that turned 95% of them into walkers in the first day."
A line like that from the CDC doctor could easily have been tossed out there and explain everything with no need to every mention it again.
Why not? Do bombs somehow not damage the brains of the things they're dropped on anymore?
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