Always a Changeling???

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by pimp, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. pimp

    pimp Commander Red Shirt

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    Hi

    Just a curious question, where the changelings always shapeshifters or did they evolve from solids????

    Thanks
     
  2. JNG

    JNG Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command Rear Admiral

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    While we don't really know their history, it seems highly unlikely that such an exotic life form could have evolved from "solids" per se and would also not match with how they seem to feel solids are so deeply and irreconcilably different from themselves. However, they were almost certainly restricted to fewer forms (or one) at some earlier point in their evolution...but I doubt those forms were anything we'd recognize.
     
  3. DrTaylor

    DrTaylor Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    My understanding is that they did either evolve from solids or on the same planet with solids. They were not, however, intended to evolve from the Progenitor Race featured in "The Chase".
     
  4. Meredith

    Meredith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am thinking take the evolutionary path of a slime mold to it's logical conclusion. I am thinking he may be silica based as well. Something Bashir said in the first episode that had Dr. Mora in it.

    I could see a changeling evolving a mimic ability to look like solid creatures to fool the other liquid slime mold type creatures that were predators.

    Maybe they pick their human form after the Progenitor Race because they decoded the DNA in the Gamma Quadrant years ago and since they were the "first intelligent species" in the galaxy, the changelings picked that shape as a "tribute" to the first life that seeded and "controlled" the destiny of the other species, something that fits the changeling manifesto, the "controlling of other race's destines" part specifically.

    Either that or the Progenitor race came across the slime molds in their pr5imordial state and added some DNA like stuff to them, an unfolding program, and it made their "natural humanoid form" look like a progenitor. Since they may not evolve as quickly since they simply change shape to evolve the "Progenitor DNA" might be more expressed than it was in a Klingon or Romulan etc....
     
  5. AdmiralGarak

    AdmiralGarak Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    While the series has never delved into the origins of the Changelings, the Relaunch novels have.
    According to Memory Beta:

    Source.
     
  6. Damask

    Damask Commander Red Shirt

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    From Behind The Lines
    ODO
    And have our people always been
    Shape-shifters, or was there a time
    when we were like the Solids?

    FEMALE SHAPE-SHIFTER
    Eons ago, we were like them --
    limited to one form. But we
    evolved.
     
  7. AdmiralGarak

    AdmiralGarak Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :cool: I forgot about that exchange. Good catch.
     
  8. pimp

    pimp Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm left confused, because in the episode The Search Odo asks his people if he was once an infant and they said in away he was, so that means they do reproduce somehow.
     
  9. AdmiralGarak

    AdmiralGarak Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    'In a way' does not mean 'Yes'.

    I can't remember what explanation was given for your question, but it was addressed. Hopefully somebody can help out, or you could ask over in Trek Literature. Both the author and the editor are regular posters there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2008
  10. Apogeal Alpha01

    Apogeal Alpha01 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When he was found on Bajor his ability to change shape was limited, immature. And apparently, like the little Changling Quark sold him, smaller. Given that he doesn't consume food, nutrition in way we understand it's hard to see how he would manage to grow, but he did.
     
  11. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think they evolved from a Solaris-type planet (which seemed to be the inspiration for the Changeling planet anyway) that was a single sentient being - sentient in a sense that is totally different from human intelligence - and the individualized aspect of Changelings evolved later, sort of like a single being evolving cells that can break off and do their own independent thing.
     
  12. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Its also possible they adapted or "helped" themselves like they "improved" the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta- maybe they're just renegade freaks who broke their society's rules on genetic manipulation and were oppressed or there were arrest attempts for what they did.
    After all, as mentioned, they seem to remember being solids.

    And for the other point- the Female Founder kindof hesitates in "the Search" as if "infant" isn't the right term, just one that Odo sticks on, so she decides to go with it. That flexibility is used in the DS9 relaunch. Odo wonders why he was "sent away"- a good point, if you're worried about being hunted and attacked- would you send your children away with no education or training?
     
  13. EEE

    EEE Captain Captain

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    And yet they were represented by the exact same actress! Coincidence? Enquiring minds want to know!

    I think it means he was scooped from the shallow end of the lake. *grin*
     
  14. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  15. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    SPOILER for DS9R Worlds- Dominion story- sorry if its been covered somewhere...

    Does the fact that the Founders know that they were once solids conflict with the DS9R Worlds' Dominion story with regard to the Progenitor?
     
  16. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  17. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ... interesting... a bit wacky, but interesting. Thanks I See You.
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How do we know? ;)
     
  19. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    Has it ever been established in any sources (I'm sure not canonically that I can recall) how long an "average" lifespan for a Founder might be? Excluding injury and so forth?
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, not that I'm aware of. All we know about Founder biology is that Odo has to regenerate every so often (we've never seen any of the others do this, so we have no idea if it's internal to the race, or just Odo's problem). That's it, really. We don't know how they 'eat', how long they live, how they reproduce, or anything like that.