ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, May 14, 2013.

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Rate Star Trek Into Darkness.

  1. Outstanding

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  2. Above Average

    4 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Average

    6 vote(s)
    37.5%
  4. Below Average

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  5. Poor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. newtontomato539

    newtontomato539 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    And yet another thread devolves into:

    "Bad Robot/Abrams/JJ/Orci/Kurtzman SUCK!
    :scream::scream::scream::scream::scream:

    :rolleyes:
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    Umm, are you referring to some other thread? Because I see nothing of that sort in this thread. I think that Abrams and his collaborators have produced two movies that are reasonably entertaining and have good characterization but have some significant plot holes and credibility problems -- just like most Trek movies, and most movies in general, have plot and credibility problems. I think the movies were good but imperfect, and it's natural enough to hope that whoever directs the next movie will be able to both retain the good qualities and improve on the weaknesses -- which is pretty much what anyone would want from any sequel. Beyond that, the discussion in the thread is mainly about how the novelization fleshes out the story and fills in some of the gaps. So I don't see where you're getting the impression that anyone here is simply bashing the filmmakers.
     
  3. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    Back on the topic, I think that this is where this novelization helps this movie. Foster adds a lot to each scene just by letting the characters talk to each other more, expanding and explaining the plot more. Doing this simple thing really made this story even better. So, letting each scene breathe a bit could really benefit the next movie. I'm not advocating making it longer for longer sake, but giving each scene the right screen time so that the plot and characterization come across clearly. Foster does this very well in his novelization!
     
  4. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    I noticed no additional scenes in the novelization that were not in the movie. But I did notice that one scene from the movie was not included in the novelization—maybe because it was added at the last minute or something—the brief scene when Kirk awakes in his bed with two cat-like aliens. And I guess it is too bad the scene wasn’t in the novelization because many people have been debating over whether these women were Caitians (like M’Ress on TAS) or a completely new race to cannon, which the novelization could have helped with.

    Also, the line in the movie [spoken by Sulu in a voice-over where his mouth does not appear on screen] about the unarmed civilian ship being from the “Mudd Incident” is missing from the novelization. I can see how that was also because of it being a last-minute addition to link up with Countdown to Darkness. The novelization does nothing to help us understand the references to the ship being “K’normian”, as referenced in other lines in the movie and novelization.

    The novelization did not explain or really reference the fact that Praxis was in pieces. In fact, the novelization seemed to indicate that Praxis was fine and that there were just tons of other moons around Qo’noS.

    I didn’t like all the extra details about the area of Qo’noS were Harrison went to hide and why it was deserted. But I must admit that this was mostly just because I didn’t like the “medical plague” excuse that was used. I would much preferred if they had stated that that region of Qo’noS had to be evacuated because of radiation or poisoning caused by debris from the explosion of Praxis. That would have been more compelling to me.

    I generally liked the added dialog and extended scenes that the novelization added to the movie. But there were a few places where I didn’t like it, or I felt the movie actually did it better:

    The scene where Kirk and Spock discuss the plan for Kirk to take Khan over to the Vengeance. In the movie this plays out pretty well, with Kirk saying “I don’t know what I should do; I only know what I can do.” I feel the movie portrayed Kirk in the scene with just the right amount of desperation and inspired leadership. In the novelization the conversation is a little longer and more fully—too fully—portrays Kirk as being absolutely clueless, which I don’t think works for his character. I think it’s better to let the audience continue to think that he just has a brilliant plan, versus a crazy one.

    The scene on the bridge of the Vengeance when Admiral Marcus is trying to convince Kirk that Section 31 is right and that Marcus needs to be in charge when the Klingons attack. The extended version of this conversation between Marcus and Kirk spends a lot of time with Marcus’s incorrect “logic trains” about how the Klingons will react. Marcus is trying to “blow smoke” and Kirk easily sees through it in the novelization. I felt it was better to just cut those parts out like the movie did, so that Admiral Marcus doesn’t seem like an idiot who is obviously wrong. The movie version helps the audience believe that Marcus may actually know what he’s talking about. And that ambiguity is much more interested. [Of course, the movie then totally forgets about that very interesting ambiguity seconds later when Marcus is killed and the plot goes back to less–interesting Khan focus.]

    There was an extended scene in the novelization where McCoy explains to Kirk exactly how he made “fake” bodies to go inside the torpedoes. This explained how even though Khan did purposely scan the torpedoes to ensure his crew was in them—which he did in the novelization [a big improvement over the movie]—the scans showed the crew was there even though they weren’t. Don’t get me wrong, I did like the fact that the explanation existed in the novelization, but I felt it took way too much time to explain. Remember, this scene is happening as the Enterprise is falling to Earth. I don’t think there was much time to jibber-jabber. I think it would have been better if McCoy just thought about all the stuff he had done—so that we readers had the info—but didn’t take the full time to explain it all to Kirk at the time.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    I doubt that very much. The comics were seeded with bits of foreshadowing for the movie, not the other way around. Given how many continuity errors there are in the comics, I really doubt that the filmmakers are paying that much attention to them at all. And there's absolutely no reason in the comic why that Bajoran woman was called Mudd; it's totally random unless it was done to tie into the already-scripted line in the movie.


    What's to understand? K'normians were one of the background races from ST:TMP. Beyond that, it's just a name, an indication that this was a civilian ship that wouldn't be associated with Starfleet and thus made sense to use for a covert mission.



    I thought he said that to McCoy.



    But didn't the movie make it clear that the torpedoes were shielded against scans? That's why they had to open one up to discover what was inside. So how could Khan have scanned them?
     
  6. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    Khan designed them; he may know how to defeat the scan shielding. (Much like how the Enterprise-D was normally shielded against photon torpedoes...)
     
  7. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    But it may be possible that the idea to put in the Mudd line, and to have the Mudd character in the Countdown to Darkness comics was a change that happen late enough in the process that it didn't get incorporated into the novelization before it went to print.

    I get that. I was just looking/hoping for a little more reasoning as to why they would use the name of that race for their cover story. Humans and Vulcans don't look that much like K'normians.

    A lot of us thought that initially when watching the trailer. But in the movie it was clearly Spock that Kirk was talking to.


    Good point. Maybe a goof? Or maybe I'll have to re-read that to see what was mentioned in the extended explanation in the novelization.
    I do remember there being some limitations to Khan's scans of the torpedoes. Like, it took time and he could only do one at a time. So he didn't bother doing them all. That's how the novelization explains how Khan missed the fact that one of the torpedoes was about to explode. [The others went by chain reaction from the one that McCoy rigged to explode.] Actually, that whole thing plays out pretty well in the novelization. There's a discussion about the odds that Khan would check the one that was rigged to explode, with a good discussion of how Spock was "playing the odds" or "playing chess" with Khan [although poker might have been a better allusion].
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    Neither do Bajorans. There's no law that says a person of one species can't buy or operate a ship built by a different species. Heck, we've seen plenty of instances in the shows where the same starship model was recycled for different aliens' ships, like the Arkonian warship from ENT: "Dawn" being reused for Xindi and Tellarite ships later. So there's precedent for the idea of one species buying ships built by a different species.
     
  9. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    Yeah, but in the film Kirk says to the security guys that "you're K'normian merchants now". To me, that implied that they were supposed to be pretending to be from that race.
    But I guess he could have just meant "merchants for the K'Normians". Which, as you say Christopher, could be from any race.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    Or maybe it's a nation rather than a race. One thing I hate about Trek and most other SF is the way they treat the two as interchangeable, as if every political entity were defined on purely racial grounds. There are Americans whose ancestors come from every country in the world; why can't there be people who are K'normian by nationality but human by birth, or Vulcan by nationality yet Denobulan by birth, or what-have-you? (It would certainly explain why there are two completely different-looking species called Ktarians, and several different ones called Rigelians.)

    In any case, we have seen instances where characters impersonated members of another species by using audio communication only. Perhaps Kirk's plan was that they'd use the K'normian scout ship and identify themselves as K'normians over the radio if challenged, but wouldn't send a visual transmission.
     
  11. iarann

    iarann Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

    You have a good point there. I have seen this handled in other SF, but Star Trek pretty much avoids that outside of the Federation in the show. Oddly enough, due to the way MMO games are designed, the Star Trek Online game actually does this, for example making the Gorn a race but a member of the Klingon Empire.

    Having seen the movie twice now, I'm pretty sure this was his intent, especially since his backup plan when he was forced to land was to go out Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid style.
     
  12. FatherRob

    FatherRob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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