All about T'Pol

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by 2 of 10, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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  2. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, but that's not comparable, for a number of reasons:

    1. It's at her wedding, and at Vulcan weddings, one or more parties are often affected by the pon farr. It makes perfect sense that Vulcan culture might allow for more sexualized clothing at a pon farr-induced wedding.

    2. Yes, that's a dress, and it's a little bit tight. But it's not as ridiculously tight as T'Pol's Vulcan uniform in ENT Seasons One and Two, nor is it designed to draw a great deal of attention to her breasts and buttocks. Nor is it as ridiculously tight as the catsuit T'Pol wore supposedly of her own accord in ENT Seasons.

    3. We've seen what Vulcans wear in most other contexts; they're usually robes or simple tunics. It's nothing like what T'Pol wore in ENT Seasons Three and Four, and it's also quite different from T'Pring's dress. Something akin to T'Pol's costume in "Home" is far more consistent with her character and culture than the blue and red catsuits.
     
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    It has an Empire waist and a tight bodice. Its all about the boobies.

    Uh huh

    [​IMG]

    Uh huh

    [​IMG]



    I like the TOS Vulcans. Nary a robe in sight. They seemed to like skirts/kilts and sensible suits.
     
  4. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Yes -- at a wedding. And it's still not as objectifying as the catsuits.

    At an obscure ceremony whose nature apparently predates modern Vulcan? Hardly indicative of anything.

    Congratulations, you've proven that DS9 could be just as sexist and objectifying as ENT and VOY.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    So they just happened to have those outfits lying around, just in case someone wanted the fal tor pan???? I think they might just be something that these women wear from time to time.

    Since Spock didn't change into a "Vulcan tux" ( or a dress uniform) we can assume that T'Pring is dressed in Vulcan casual. Nice legs on T'Pring, she's the Angelina Jolie of Vulcan. No comment on the "executioner's" exposed flesh? Why would a Vulcan show off his chest like that?
     
  6. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Let's take a look at the most common forms of dress for Vulcan female civilians, across the series:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    So it's fairly firmly established that Vulcan women do not, in general, dress to advertise their sexuality. Why would they? Their culture disdains open expressions of sexuality and emotion, after all; they barely even talk about the pon farr in public.

    Now, hell, you can have an individual Vulcan character who breaks the rules of their culture because that's the sort of person they are. But T'Pol isn't -- yes, she rebels against some rules, but even among Humans, she makes a strong (if not always successful) effort to control her emotions. She doesn't seek to make Human men desire her. So her ENT Seasons Three and Four costumes aren't consistent with her culture or with her individual characterizaton.

    Then there's the Seasons One and Two catsuit, which was worn while T'Pol was supposed to be a serving officer with the Vulcan space service. It's ludicrous -- it defies Vulcan culture and her charaterization at that point in the series and stands in stark contrast to how other female officers of the Vulcan space service were costumed:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It didn't serve any purpose except to objectify the character for male titillation.

    ETA:

    Why not? Clothing from premodern eras are often preserved, particularly if they hold religious significance. And VOY's "Tuvix" already well established that Vulcans held onto religious ceremonial practices, even well after the rise of Surak's teachings.

    I see no reason to make such an assumption, especially given T'Pau's highly formal dress.

    Looks like a highly ceremonial form of dress to me -- likely held over from the pre-modern Vulcan era.

    ETA 2:

    Even a female Vulcan visiting Risa doesn't dress so provocatively:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    She's wearing what looks like a black pants suit/turtleneck combo (standard alien fair in TOS) with a silver skirt and a cape of gossamer. Is that highly formal on Vulcan????

    As I said, the TOS Vulcans didnt go for robes. That seems to be an invention of the movies when the Vulcans went from scientists to mystics.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Have you seen how the Borg dress? They are tightly covered all over by their "armor" if you can call it that. They are held in by it. I think 7 feels safer completely contained by the suit. It's like a swaddling cloth. To wear something loose that flaps around.. that's inefficient and indicates a comfort with oneself that 7 doesn't have. She doesn't see it as kinky and cleavagy, you do.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    ^Similarly, Vulcans may not have the same body/sexuality hang ups as 21st Century humans. Robes and catsuits are just clothing.
     
  10. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, you can call it that. It's body armor, not clothe.

    "Loose that flaps around?" Believe it or not, there are degrees between catsuits and robes.

    And, no, it's not inefficient to wear standard clothing. If anything, the catsuit is inefficient -- Jeri Ryan literally needed a wardrobe assistant to help her get into it and out of it every day. There's nothing efficient about clothing that requires two people to engage in a 15-minute operation so the wearer can go to the bathroom.

    It literally lifts and separates each boob, and clings to every crevice of her hips and buttocks. If Seven wanted something relatively tight, she could have worn a turtleneck and sweater, without wearing something that essentially picks up each breast and draws attention to her ass crack. It's kinky -- there's no way around that.
     
  11. I am Surak

    I am Surak Captain Captain

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    I think you need to get out more.
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]

    While not as well endowed as Jolene or Jeri, Suzie's hills and valley are still noticeable in a standard Starfleet uniform. Work it vixen.

    :)
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  14. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Happy to see that you two have nothing to say other than to insult me for disagreeing with the costuming choices for these characters.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not insulting you, I'm just picturing you watching VOY. Studying.

    Really the catsuits could have done with nipples. Do you think they taped them? Or maybe it was just so hot on the set under the lights this was never an issue.
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I would have preferred T'Pol and Seven in standard uniforms, but we got what we got and I'll live with and rationalized that. I do think that T'Pol's original uniform was a nod to T'Pring as it had the empire waist and some of the texture of her costume.
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    There is no rhetorical justification for bringing up such a thing except to attempt to discredit someone else's argument by insinuating that they're inappropriately fixated on the actor's body.
     
  18. I am Surak

    I am Surak Captain Captain

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    Ahh rhetoric. So educated and apparently so intelligent yet at a loss with dealing with the fairer sex. Why does it always seem to go hand in hand?
    Tell me why professor Professor Frink?

    In a nutshell:

    Trek et.al. is a TV show
    TV shows are produced to lure viewers to them
    The plot and cast are designed to appeal to a certain demographic
    That's all they are. Playful visuals to fill the time between commercials
    Trek is not Luis Bunuel's That obscure object of desire
     
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    *yawns*

    Got anything better?
     
  20. I am Surak

    I am Surak Captain Captain

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    Not for you. Engaging in the mindless drivel of your mind just isn't my style professor Frink. Excuse me while I watch 1 million years B.C.
    Its so full of gratuitous sex. Rachel Welch - she would have made a great Vulcanesse.