Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Trekker4747, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By the way did anyone else find it odd that.
    That Coulson basically resigned from SHIELD because of T.A.H.I.T.I which sort of contradicts The Avengers
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't think it was "fake" -- well, except in the sense that it's an imaginary story about people who don't exist. I think it was a chance for Skye to prove that she's a better person than Ward and Garrett. I think it's important to give heroes chances to show why they're better than the villains. I'll never understand shows that have protagonists who are just as lethal and cruel and ruthless as their enemies. Why should we root for them in that case? What makes them better? In that case it might as well just be a story about gang warfare, with the sides picked arbitrarily.

    The MCU has been frustratingly lacking in protagonists who show regard for human life, so I'll take that show of basic human decency any way I can get it.


    He didn't resign from SHIELD, he stepped down from oversight of that specific project and recommended its cancellation.
     
  3. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or HYDRA members don't really consider themselves Nazis anymore as the organization may have diverged enough to have their own ideology with only some similarities to Nazisism by this point.

    I mean it has been 70 years, and Red Skull was already dumped by the Nazis Party by Captain America: The First Avenger.

    It already kind of seemed that HYDRA in that movie was less about Nazisism and more about being Red Skull's private cult/army.

    Add 70 years slowly rebuilding the organization with a slowly changing membership as the old guard died off and new guys rose through the organization and several different guys were running the thing at various points, as well as possible osmosis from working inside Shield for decades affecting the HYDRA ideology.

    Honestly it's very likely that the HYDRA of 2014 is very different from the HYDRA of the 1940s.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did he resign?

    I thought he was just closing the project down.

    Afterwhich he would have been reassigned.

    here's the problem with the timeline.

    If the Project was to bring back an Avenger, and Coulson died during their founding, it really makes you wonder how much of he Avengers Initiative was put in place before Fury started signing up Avengers.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, as I argued myself earlier in the discussion. But there's merit in the counterargument too. However they may have evolved, their roots are in an evil organization based on hate. And they're still willing to kill millions in pursuit of world conquest, which is really not that different from the Nazis even if they're now choosing their victims based on different parameters.
     
  6. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    ^ I took it that he was resigning from the project or, alternatively, that he was going to resign and convinced to stay. He obviously did not resign.

    No they didn't, they said "cryo-cell in Alaska." The "Alaska" part may be why you're thinking it's the Fridge, but the Fridge is obviously not in Alaska.
     
  7. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But why make Skye a better person. Why not let Skye be awful and see how that develops the character.

    Because comic books and TV shows like AoS are about empowerment fantasy and beating and killing thugs in the name of justice makes you "the good guy".

    It's part of our tribal instincts to pick a side and root for them. Hence that's why Americans are the good guys even though we murder children with drones.

    In a society where torture is okay, I'll live with my heroes just being selectively violent.

    If you can, you should watch the show again. Coulson said he was handing in his resignation. It's not clear though if it's from SHIELD or that specific project.
     
  8. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    HYDRA hasn't evolved, the writers have made them a generic bad guy organization. Like I said before, HYDRA has a goal and a method but they don't have ideology (unless you consider the fact that they are as sophisticated as school yard bullies). Making them racist anti-Semites would at least make them more interesting.
     
  9. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Deleted scene.
     
  10. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Well, this was a pretty good episode. This new approach may work out, if they don't drag it out too long. I'm glad May is back and Coulson has realized how childish he was-- that was painful to watch. Hopefully that whole thing will now be dropped.

    Skye was really great in this episode, from leaving a message behind, to playing Ward, to tipping off the police. If it wasn't for Deathlok, she would have pulled it off. I loved Fitz's freak out reaction to Ward-- he had bonded with Ward on that mission in a way that only someone with few friends can. The exchange between him and Simmons has me a little worried-- making Simmons HYDRA would be one of the stupidest things they could do. I'm liking Triplett more and more, so I hope they don't screw with him either.

    The TAHITI revelation was interesting. Does this mean that Coulson and Skye are both now at risk for mental breakdowns? Or does his brain surgery and her 084 status save them?

    :wtf:

    :wtf:

    :wtf:

    :wtf:
     
  11. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, that's right, it was Alaska not The Fridge. Still, you have to think that some Hydra faction or another is going to try to grab him. If not to immediately use, then at least to prevent anyone else using him against them. After all, he is still a soldier and Ross apparently believed he could be reasoned with enough to get him to cooperate.
    Failing that, there are other means of control. I mean that memory implant machine at the Guest House couldn't have been one of a kind, could it? There's also good old fashioned bribery...oh and of course they do have Loki's staff.
    If nothing else he's still a means of access to the super-soldier serum in his blood.
     
  12. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    First of all, their are a lot of people who don't consider Americans the good guys, including Americans. Second, the bushmen of Madagascar don't pick sides and welcome outsiders (for a time before sending them away) and they are as tribal as you can get. It's our culture that's trained to pick sides, not instincts. Third,
    In regards to drones murdering children, it's not like some General said "Oh look, a child. Shoot him!", there are many factors including; bad intel, there was a terrorist cell there that was supplemented with families prior to an assault, or the target was a terrorist cell and other cells thought it would be wise to blow up kids and place the bodies there to discredit Americans.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Americans are usually lovely.

    America is a giant machine that wants results.
     
  14. dansigal

    dansigal Captain Captain

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    Well we only saw one half of that conversation; we're missing Fury's response. It's likely he was resigning from SHIELD, but Fury didn't accept his resignation and instead took his advice and shut down TAHITI.
     
  15. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry but that is not only completely unsupported by any dialogue from Coulson, it is not a good story.
     
  16. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    Thank goodness you made that a spoiler, I doubt any board members want that plotline revealed in advance.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    TV is full of awful protagonists. We're well past the point where that's in any way original or interesting. I miss heroes.


    You've obviously read very different comic books than I have. It's "With great power comes great responsibility," not "With great power comes a great power trip."


    Yes, that's consistent with what I said. I said "stepping down," but that's just a different way of phrasing it.



    I'd actually call that rather unlikely. Coulson's very loyal to SHIELD and believes in what it stands for. Fury and Coulson tried something with benevolent intentions, but it went horribly wrong and Coulson wanted it to be abandoned. That doesn't mean he'd lost faith in the entire organization.
     
  18. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Was it a deleted scene or did the actors just feel like hugging?
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It could've been an alternate take of a scene that was in the episode -- e.g. they tried one version where Coulson and Hill's reunion was warmer and one where it was more tense, and ended up going with the tenser version.
     
  20. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Captain

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    You don't say you're resigning if you want to be taken off a project. You say... i want to be taken off the project. I don't think you got how messed up Coulson thinks the Tahiti project was. he was so disturbed by it that he would have nothing to do with it. And if SHIELD was adamant that project was a legit course of action, and insisted on continuing the program, Coulson was finished. An organization that would go down that path is not what Coulson signed up for. It's very Hyrda-ish. Obviously, Fury put Coulson's fears to rest and he didn't resign. Of course, Fury also bullshit him as we know.