Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Trekker4747, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She was coldblooded enough to play a guy into volunteering for experiments that were going to kill him, threatened to murder a child, blow up up a man and possibly had him converted into a cybernetic hitman, and has no problem killing people she works with the moment they aren't useful anymore.

    There is no coming back from that.

    He already said he wouldn't believe them.

    Only if he believe's Garrett gives a crap about HYDRA's Nazis ties seeing as 1) The current version of HYDRA seems to have dropped them for the most part, and 2) (and most importantly) He doesn't, he's just backing the winning side.

    Lets remember this isn't so much traditional HYDRA as Garrett's private army after Pierce died.

    Besides I'm pretty everyone in the MCU probably already knows Red Skull used to belong to the Nazis Party so it would probably be old news anyway.
     
  2. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    I just remembered, they still have a smaller passenger jet and the location of the bus, until the transponder is removed.

    And a few screens:

    Major Glenn Talbot: BMF.
    [​IMG]

    Deathlok, not Mike.
    [​IMG]

    Lola in action.
    [​IMG]

    And Coulson's "Wait, what?" face.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  3. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I may have misinterpreted, but the end of Thor 2 seems to suggest Thor has left Asgard and is living on Earth with Jane (presumably under the old Donald Blake identity from the comics.)

    Having said that, it seems at odds with Sif's appearance as you'd think she'd mention that he was already on Midgard, or at least no longer living at home.

    As for the rest...yes Romanov, Rogers and Barton were in SHIELD, but it's been very well established how compartmentalised Fury kept things. Any agent who knew Coulson was still alive, wouldn't volunteer that information to another agent who didn't already know unless specifically authorised to do so (unless they're both really Hydra double-agents of course.) It's pretty fundamental to any intelligence operative's training.

    As for right now, Cap is himself off the grid so he's in no position to find out unless Coulson shows up on CNN. Romanov appears to be very much in the public eye along with Hill (perhaps now also working with Stark?) so it's conceivable she'll find out before long depending on how tight lipped Hill decides to be.
    Barton...well AFAIK we know nothing about his actions or whereabouts since the end of Avengers, so it's hard to say. Going by Selvig's condition in Thor 2, it's possible he also suffered some long term effects of the staff and so has been out of action ever since. Indeed, his absence in TWS felt rather conspicuous. I mean they didn't even give him a throwaway line like "Barton's still in a coma" or "still on that deep cover assignment".

    But yeah, Stark not knowing for much longer seems to stretch credibility a bit, especially given the data dump and his having access to quite possible more raw processing power than any other single person on earth. Plus JARVIS.

    Presumably Banner is still at Avengers Tower in New York, so in that regard what Stark knows, he probably knows as and when.

    My read on it is that Fury ordered the procedure, but it was Coulson's standing recommendation that dictated the use of false memory implants and mind-wipes.

    Personally, I'm curious as to who else they were trying this on. Did any of them survive? Were the psychotics ones put down or taken to the fridge?

    Speaking of the fridge; is that where Blonsky's cryocell was kept? I mean where else would they put him? I think it's fair to say he has to be pretty high on Garrett's shopping list.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Akela and Mike did similarly awful things, and they were under coercion. As I already pointed out, we learned recently that Raina seems to have some deep personal need that she expected "the Clairvoyant" to fill. For all we know, she's just as trapped as Mike is, driven to save or find someone dear to her and willing to make a deal with the devil in exchange. I'm not saying she'll ever be a candidate for sainthood, but now that she already feels betrayed and disappointed to discover that Garrett's clairvoyance was a lie, it's possible she could turn on him given the right incentive.


    As the past few weeks should make overwhelmingly clear, the status quo at a given moment in the series cannot predict how things might change in the future -- and how characters might change in response. Heck, if characters always reacted in an exactly predictable and unvarying way, they'd have no arcs, and modern TV storytelling is all about arcs. Mike has already gone from aspiring superhero to rage-fueled maniac to gung-ho SHIELD trainee to entrapped pawn of Centipede to ruthless Terminator. He's changed a great deal over the course of the season, so we can't rule out further changes.

    Indeed, why set up Deathlok as a sympathetic character and a victim to begin with if all they wanted was a one-note villain with no prospect of redemption? They wouldn't develop him to this point and then just stop.



    People often try to fool themselves and gloss over uncomfortable truths they don't want to face. Forcing them to acknowledge and confront those truths can influence their decisions. Thousands and thousands of works of fiction have climaxed with one character forcing another to confront a truth they didn't want to face, to stop lying to themselves and admit what was really going on.
     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    From what I've heard, there was a line in TWS mentioning Barton's whereabouts, but the scene in which it took place was cut. Maybe it'll be on the Blu-ray.
     
  6. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    I'm a bit frustrated that they still haven't properly identified the "Guest House" alien. I kind of hope that if it is in fact Kree, then Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will use it as part of a direct crossover with Guardians of the Galaxy. But how? Guardians of the Galaxy comes out in August before the fall TV season.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  7. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also back at Marvel Studios.

    I was rewatching Avengers last night and the scene where Steve is watching the iPad video of the Hulk and asking about Banner Coulson mentions in that exchange "a lot of guys did". Referring to working with the serum post Erskine.
    Clearly Ted Sallis can now fit into that blanket statement anytime a TV show/film might want to incorporate him.

    Also, see Uncanny Avengers Annual #1(out today) for Man-Thing's inclusion on the Dr.Strange lead Avengers of the Supernatural.
     
  8. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think it shows that HYDRA had Nazi roots and is still seen by a Nazi organization by most, but not seen that way by many or most of the HYDRA members.

    I think that's true (although exactly when he arrived is unclear, just that it was some time later).
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Really, I thought that Ward had never considered that he was a Nazi.

    And then when he did right then, there was a massive internal facepalm.

    Clark Gregg was on @midnight last was a celebrity narrator reading a creepy Craig's list ad.
     
  10. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty much I think. To my mind it's similar to the attitude of Kevin Bacon's character from 'X-Men: First Class'; that the Nazi ideal of the ideal "supreme human" is pitifully narrow minded.

    Doesn't mean they're in any arbitrary way "better" than Nazis, just that they have more imagination and, as Zola pointed out, they actually have the capability to achieve their insane plans.

    Couldn't have been that long after. The next day maybe? It's not like he'd have a reason to stick around long after his little talk with "Odin".

    For one thing it's established that SHIELD developed the ability to track an approaching bifrost portal, presumably after the events in Greewich. If Thor had returned much later then you'd think they'd have at least known someone from Asgard had arrived in London.

    Maybe they'll pick up a thread left at the end of the movie? Or maybe the crossover (because it's a foregone conclusion, no?) will be more oblique like the Lady Sif episode.

    Personally I'm not at all frustrated. They've just dropped several bombshells, so i think it's fair to let that little mystery remain for a while. You can't expect them to reveal *everything* before the end of the season.

    Besides it's obviously a Kree. ;)
     
  11. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    I forgot to include a shout-out for the Lola sequence. As soon as Coulson lowered the ramp, I knew how he planned to escape. The machine guns behind the headlights were just right for a spy car of Lola's vintage. And we saw here a demonstration of why Ward didn't hop into Lola when Simmons needed to be saved.

    They must have quite an effects budget to give us Lola this week and apparently CGI-de-aging next week.

    I also quite liked Skye in this episode, up until she caved to save Ward. I get that it was true to her character, but Peterson was wrong...refusing to cave wouldn't have made her a murderer, it would have made him one...and there's a slippery slope when good guys capitulate too readily in hostage situations.

    I like that the show acknowledged the Nazi/Hydra connection, making clear that people like Ward don't necessarily see themselves as Nazis.

    On the subject of Raina being portrayed with a hint of sympathy...that's one of the pieces that has me suspicious of a potential change of loyalties on Simmons's part. They've established that Raina also has some overlapping skills with Simmons, so they could be planning a switcheroo down the road.

    And yet another Romanoff reference. If I were making rules for an Agents of SHIELD drinking game, it would be drink once if an Avenger is mentioned, drink twice if it's Romanoff.

    He could be their Rick Jones...if only they knew he was alive.

    I think they did previously reference Blonsky as being at the Fridge...but would Garrett be stupid enough to release him if he had no means of controlling him...?

    Coulson experiences a horrific flashback to forgotten elements of his old life when he finally catches the episode of Seinfeld in which Elaine dances.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Which, as I said, is probably a rationalization. Heck, plenty of people working for the Nazis during WWII itself had to rationalize hugely in order to convince themselves it was valid to do the atrocious things they did. Without such rationalizations and self-delusions, evil would get far less of a foothold in the world because more people would refuse to go along with it.
     
  13. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Plus sticking to Nazis ideology limits HYDRA's recruitment prospects which kills their could be anyone thing, makes the infiltrators in Shield easier to pin down, and kind of makes it hard to be a multinational terrorist organization attempting to take over the world by spreading destruction, chaos, and death around.
     
  14. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    In The Consultant, we find out SHIELD didn't want Blonsky and they sent Stark to make sure Ross didn't hand him over.
     
  15. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    ^That was in reference to recruiting him as an Avenger. A prior episode referenced Blonsky as being at a SHIELD facility, and I believe it was the Fridge.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You might be thinking of the miniepisode the Consultant.

    General Ross has Blonski, and S.H.I.E.L.D. was obliged to ask for him because of pressure from above, but becuase they didn't actually want him, they had Stark approach the General.
     
  17. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    They bought it back for $10.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But it would've made her someone who chose not to save a life when she had the opportunity, and that's not as morally neutral as you suggest. It's easy to talk about killing fictional characters or letting them die as a viable choice, but in real life, most people who aren't psychopaths would find that a far, far harder choice to make. And I wish more writers would remember that and not have their characters accept or deliver death so casually. So I applaud them for Skye's choice here.


    I had a nice delayed laugh reaction when Ward called Natasha "eye candy" and Hill said "I'll tell her you said that." As in, "I'll tell the most dangerous woman on Earth that you insulted her." Heh-heh-heh.



    In "T.R.A.C.K.S." it was mentioned that Blonsky is in a cryocell in a facility in Barrow, Alaska. Now, "Repairs" said that the Fridge is a six-hour northward flight from Utah. But the Interwebs say that the typical Utah-to-Alaska travel time is four and a half hours or so by commercial air, so the Fridge is probably farther away.
     
  19. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Nazis were not as fanatical as people are lead to believe about race purity. German intelligent services would recruit anyone and there were several prominent Nazis with Jewish ancestry (including Hitler himself) that served openly. Strangely they didn't try very hard to prove you were Jewish (unless you became inconvenient). Also Nazis race theory was pretty eurocentric and they didn't hate other races with the same passion as they hated Jews, gypsy's and slavs.
     
  20. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't. I hate fake moralizing. They can't let Ward die so easily (well Whedon might) so of course poor Skye would chose to save his life. It's so plainly obvious that it felt insulting.