Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Trekker4747, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  2. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know. Maybe the way Po only refers to him as "The Clairvoyant" rather than he or she. And what Raina said, "you can't even whisper to me about him."
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think it's possible that Po may be the Clairvoyant, but not as a split personality, just as a pretense he puts on to conceal the fact that he's really the one calling the shots -- like "Ducard" in Batman Begins.
     
  4. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I like the idea of the Clairvoyant communicating via the eye-bug over the split personality thing.
     
  5. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    For me, it was just a vibe that I was getting during his one expositional scene with Raina about the Clairvoyant this episode. It just struck me that there was something odd going on. Playing into this was the oddity that Po was the only one who could talk to the Clairvoyant even when he was behind bars. That he could also talk to the Clairvoyant after being freed reinforced the idea that there was something unique to Po going on. Also, Po always seems reluctant to call upon him, which could suggest compartmentalization.

    But the eye device also fits the scenario.
     
  6. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Yeah, my thought is there's a clear chain of command. Even those controlling others are controlled themselves. Both Reyna and Po are being controlled. Po apparently got too close to someone in the past and was then told he had to kill that person (I'm trying to remember that dialog, though, so there might be more to that). Clearly his boss values anonymity. He probably figured even a whisper would be too much of a risk.

    The line about the clairvoyant being someone with a lot of resources instead of psychic powers struck me as being the key why it wasn't Po. Since he was in prison, he wouldn't have had anywhere near those kinds of resources. I also think that's the truth since they seemed to try to quickly bury it with a fake out right after (something about Fitz saying that, if he were clairvoyant, he'd try to win the lottery).
     
  7. kitik

    kitik Captain Captain

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    So I'm going to assume Mike is still alive. Come on, in the comics, no body = no death. (And even then that's still not enough sometimes obviously.)

    Anyone else notice that Coulson clearly ran a stopsign while he was driving?
     
  8. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    That's not a trope limited to just comics it's pretty much the case in all of fiction. Hell in many cases even having a body doesn't mean death. Death only means "we actually never see this character again."
     
  9. kitik

    kitik Captain Captain

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    Of course. I'm not sure why people are assuming he's dead.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't think people are unaware of the possibility that he may have survived. But for now, for story purposes, he is effectively dead. Which is about as dead as anyone ever gets in comics these days.
     
  11. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    Why? Because the episode basically ended on a cliffhanger regarding his fate? No one's even gone in to check to see if he survived the blast, and they sure as hell haven't declared him dead.
     
  12. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I'll keep holding out hope that Mike is alive. I like the idea that he confided in Coulson beforehand and that this was a triple cross.

    The reason I think Po is the Clairvoyant, as somebody already said, is that he was able to communicate with him in prison and still Raina and the others have no way to track him. Although Raina may suspect, given her attempts to seduce Po.

    As for the meeting at the end, Ward's position was meant to show that there was no good position-- that Centipede had arranged it so that there was no clear shot. Foreshadowing that everything was going to go toes up (as if we needed that :rommie:). They had the trucks rigged to explode to forestall pursuit. They didn't blow up the car to make anybody think Coulson was dead, but just to get rid of their stuff and as a gesture to SHIELD that they had been pwned. Similarly, they shot exactly at Ward's position as the final finger to SHIELD, telling them that they had lost before they even showed up. The Clairvoyant knew exactly where Ward would be positioned-- either because of genuine clairvoyance, or a bug of some kind, or a mole.
     
  13. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I gotta say, I agree with The AV Club on this one, as I have the past few:
    What's that? You say the fighting is mostly going to be concentrated in a warehouse filled with shipping crates? And be totally completely utterly boring? Oh, good. Wouldn’t want things to speed up in between the interminable dialogue. Skye is trying to figure out who her mom is, and getting blown off by Coulson and May. Ward is making sure May realizes he still puts the job above their relationship, whatever that might be. Fitz and Simmons are twittering away at each other about nothing in particular. I just named all the characters of the show.

    As an MCU completist up to this point, I can hardly believe I'm saying this, but I might well not watch every ep from here on; it's just too dull, and ABC's spotty streaming connection (my Arrow streaming from the CW site is much smoother) ain't helping either. The show has a serious in-universe credibility problem in that Big SHIELD should have enough resources to crush anything but the most advanced opposition. Why did May only call for satellite surveillance when things went south? Surely they should have had a drone with x-ray and thermal video on hand to track the baddies after the handoff as well as the scent ploy, a drone that could then track the helicopter? It's not as though there's a Level 7 agent at risk or anything... oh, wait...

    Also, the show needs some stylish villains, stat. The dullard duo from this ep doesn't qualify. Let's have that smarmy corporate guy from "The Asset" and more like him again, please.
     
  14. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Well, I've maintained that the guy from The Asset is in charge of this organization, so you might get your wish. My personal view is, if you agree with this review, then you shouldn't watch the show. I don't see why anyone should watch a show they don't enjoy. It just makes them miserable and everyone else miserable when that person inevitably complains about not liking the show.

    All that being said, this is stupid:
    The lack of backup units was deliberately explained and deliberately set up to create drama. This isn't like the complaint of previous episodes where Coulson's team seems oddly on their own. In fact, recently, they seem less on their own. Sure, it happened off screen, but they mentioned how they've flushed out Centipede's camp with massive SHIELD force and have had no success. Mentioning that in dialog is a contrivance for television, sure, but I'm not going to fault them for saving their money.

    At the end of the episode, they're on radio with SHIELD telling them to give them satellite coverage so SHIELD was apparently waiting for their signal to respond (they just had to be far enough away as to not get a kid killed). If the complaint is that it's illogical for the team to go alone, I'd have to disagree given the circumstances. If the complaint is that it would be more exciting to see a massive SHIELD force appear, I'd have to disagree as well since the tension was in their helplessness at that moment.

    The impression is that next episode will involve SHIELD HQ more, along with Victoria Hand, and will presumably spend all the money on extras that this episode saved (although, if they don't think Coulson is worth retrieving, maybe it won't). Either way, it makes more sense from a story perspective than having a lot of people would in this episode.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think Iron Man 3 made it pretty clear that Stark was retiring from the superhero game, at least until Age of Ultron pulls him back in somehow. But I did wonder what was keeping Cap so busy that he couldn't be brought in on this. Hopefully The Winter Soldier will explain that.

    Of course, there is the fact that Fury lied to the Avengers about Coulson dying, so maybe he's reluctant to bring them in on any of Coulson's cases because he doesn't want to have to have that conversation if he can avoid it. Still, the bigger the threats faced by Coulson's Bus Team, the more implausible it gets that Fury wouldn't bite the bullet and do what had to be done.
     
  16. Icemizer

    Icemizer Commodore Commodore

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    As I think about this episode a little more several other questions comes to mind. Just who was Ward going to shoot from his poorly chosen position? Was he just there to watch? Was he going to blast one of the bad guys if they did not deliver the kid? Was he supposed to take out the tire on the car as they started to drive away? Was he just there for backup in case they needed him? Why did the entire SHIELD team go to the meeting? You needed Coulson and Mike and maybe Ward but everyone else should have been safely some place else, not where they could all have been easily killed by oh say a rocket launcher.
    I also have to agree with Gaith, heros are defined by the villians they fight and so far the SHIELD team is not exactly taking on even C-list baddies. Now its only half a season so I am willing to be patient until this time next season for things to ramp up.
    Finally a guy I work with who is a huge Marvel guy pointed out that if this show did not have Marvel in front of it, it would have already been cancelled. Cant say I found many arguements with that statement.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That seems most likely. That's often the purpose of a sniper in a show like Flashpoint, say -- as the last resort, the person who's in place to protect the team (or bystanders) if things go wrong.


    Wasn't there a post recently linking to an article that compared its ratings to other shows and demonstrated that it was actually outperforming other new scripted dramas? I think the perception that it's struggling in the ratings is a myth. It's not the huge success everyone was expecting from the hype, but it's far from a failure in terms of how it stacks up against other actual shows.
     
  18. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Just for ease of conversation, the woman in the flower dress is "Raina."
     
  19. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    Also, in addition to the US ratings, we've discussed the non-US markets side of the business issues in play here...
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Right here...
    *Posted prematurely. quotes not attributed. Not gonna fix it. You know who you are.