Admirals of Starfleet

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by JonoKyle, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. JonoKyle

    JonoKyle Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    I have recently been re-reading many of the novels set between the TNG 'A time to' series and Destiny series and am wondering if the position titles of the admirals that were prominent during this period (2378 to 2381) have ever been determined. From what I have read I have worked out the following and just wanted to see if I was close or had it wrong?

    From my understanding the three highest positions within Starfleet are the ‘Commander-in-Chief’ (C-in-C), ‘Commander, Starfleet’ and Chief of Staff.

    In A Time to Heal it seem Jellico, Nechayev, Nakamura, Ross & Paris all held high ranking positions in either command or security. Since none seemed to be the C-in-C, I presume at least one of them had to be either the Commander, Starfleet or Chief of Staff to have a meeting of this importance.

    In Before Dishonour it seem Jellico held a high ranking position, yet when talking to Seven indicates there were higher positions above him and both Jellico & Nechayev positions were roughly equal.

    In Lost Souls it seem Jellico, Nechayev & Nakamura are the three most senior admirals - so I presume Nechayev was Starfleet Command Commanding Officer & Nakamura was either Chief of Staff or Chief of Starfleet Operations.

    So out of the prominent ones I have:

    Leonard James Akaar
    78-80 – Starfleet Mission Operations?
    80-81 - Liaison to the President
    81 onwards C-in-C

    Marta Batanides
    78-85 – Either Chief or Deputy Chief of Starfleet Intelligence
    85 onwards – Chief of Starfleet Intelligence

    Kathryn Janeway
    78-80 - Starfleet Mission Operations? Until her death

    Edward Jellico
    78-80 – Senior position within Starfleet Operations
    80 – possibly Chief of Starfleet Operations or Chief of Staff?
    81 – C-in-C before retiring

    Tujiro Nakamura
    78-81 – possibly Chief of Starfleet Operations or Chief of Staff?

    Alynna Nechayev
    78-80 – Senior position within Starfleet Internal Affairs/Security, or possibly Commander, Starfleet
    81 – Commander, Starfleet

    Owen Paris
    78 onwards – Senior position within Starfleet Operations on Earth
    81 – resigned/transferred to accept command of Starbase 234 possibly due to incident in In A Time to Heal.

    William Ross
    78-80 – Chief of Starfleet Security? possibly Commander, Starfleet
    80 - Liaison to the President before retiring
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    I thought Akaar always was Starfleet's CinC since he was first introduced in the Mission Gamma books?
     
  3. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    In the future's past
    Wasn't Jellico C-in-C in Destiny? He resigned due his perceived failure, right?
     
  4. Csalem

    Csalem Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I think Before Dishonor was the first mention of Jellicoe being C-in-C. I think he had a line about finally getting to the top of Starfleet only to be killed as the Borg cube headed for Earth. (Of course, he didn't die).
     
  5. zarkon

    zarkon Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Jellico resigned in Losing the Peace due to the massive casulties in the borg invasion, and Akaar takes over.

    Dunno who was in charge between Shanthi & Jellico though
     
  6. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    I like discussing this issue. I'm pretty sure that before Jellico in the Destiny trilogy, no Star Trek work had a C-in-C even though it should have except William "Bill" Smilie in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country and Taela Shanthi in 2368 as mentioned in the script of TNG: "Redemption II", but dialogue never stated her to be at the absolute top or anything.

    I've compiled this list of absolute heads of Starfleet:
    Robert L. "Bob" Comsol -2253-2270 (TOS: "The Menagerie" background materials had him as the primary officer issuing a Starfleet General Order and DTI: Forgotten History states him to be the "commanding officer of Starfleet" and part of Starfleet Command)
    Heihachiro Nogura 2270-2274- (DTI: Forgotten History established him as Comsol's successor)
    John Jason "Blackjack" Harriman, Sr. -2289-2290- (Excelsior: Forged in Fire states him as the "current C-in-C")
    William "Bill" Smilie -2293- ("C in C" as stated above)
    Margaret Sinclair-Alexander -2311-2319- (TLE: Serpents Among the Ruins and One Constant Star have her as "Starfleet commander in chief")
    Edward James Jellico -2381 ("commander-in-chief" in Destiny)
    Leonard James Akaar 2381-2385- ("commander-in-chief" or "commanding officer of Starfleet Command" in various novels)

    Other notes:
    The Rise of the Federation ENT miniseries so far has 5 joint chiefs of staff of Starfleet and no singular head.
    Excelsior: Forged in Fire has Admiral Cartwright as the Chief of Starfleet Operations in late 2289/early 2290
    TLE: Catalyst of Sorrows has Admiral Uhura as "head of Starfleet Intelligence" in 2360
    The Sky's the Limit - "Meet with Triumph and Disaster" has Admiral Norah Satie as the chief of Starfleet Operations and Admiral Gregory Quinn as being in charge of Starfleet's exploratory division in 2363
    In TNG: "The Drumhead", Vice Admiral Thomas Henry is Chief of Starfleet Security in 2367
    TNG: "The Pegasus" has Admiral Raner as Chief of Starfleet Security in 2370
    Let's not forget that infamous Leyton affair of 2372 when Captain Sisko was Chief of Starfleet Security!
    S.C.E. #63 - What's Past: Echoes of Coventry has Admiral Batanides as the "commander of Starfleet Intelligence" in 2375
    The Genesis Wave, Book 3 mentions an Admiral Rendelez as "Chief of Starfleet Command" in 2377
    Vulcan's Soul: Exodus states that Admiral Uhura is "chief of intelligence" in 2377
    Blind Man's Bluff has Jellico as the "head of Starfleet operations" although that NF novel has a lot of incongruities with the rest of the modern novelverse
    Destiny - Lost Souls states "In the scant months since Jellico had ascended to Starfleet's top flag office"
    Losing the Peace stated that Jellico was the "commander of Starfleet" and later the officer delivering the death notice for T'Ryssa Chen's mother says "the president and the commander in chief of Starfleet offer their condolences"
    The Fall - A Ceremony of Losses has Batanides as the "flag officer in charge of Starfleet Intelligence" in 2385


    All this makes me wonder how Beverly Crusher could have been the head of Starfleet Medical during TNG season 2 and just after Star Trek Nemesis if she's only a commander. It makes no sense to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  7. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Great list, Enterprise. (I feel strange addressing a starship :p).

    As you say, Uhura is still the head of Starfleet Intelligence in 2377, as shown in Vulcan's Soul. However, as you also note, SCE has Batanides in that role by 2375, and I think Hollow Men also names her as head of SI (2374) - and possibly Rogue has her holding the position in 2372? (It's been a long time, I don't remember). I've wondered if that can be resolved by Uhura remaining the real head of SI while Batanides takes the public role? Or that even if Uhura has handed over the reigns to Batanides, she's retained as a sort of shadow chief? (I assume one does not really retire from the leadership of Starfleet Intelligence. I assume you're in the centre of that web until you die). As of 2385, though, Batanides has apparently fully inherited the post.
     
  8. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Dr. Crusher was likely the head of the Medical operations of Starfleet on Earth itself. Nowhere else in Sol system or Sol Sector. That might be a sufficiently limited role for someone of Commander's rank.
     
  9. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    Thanks. I wish I could modify my username to something else. But why don't you tack on "1701" at the end?
    Good thinking, guys.
     
  10. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I'm being familiar. I wouldn't want to give you the full-name-and-registry ultimatum. ;)

    "Enterprise 1701, you get in here this instant! Oooh, just wait until your chief designer gets home!"
     
  11. trampledamage

    trampledamage Clone Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Location:
    hitching a ride to Erebor
    It is possible to change your username if you want to. Send a PM to T'Bonz, put your old name in your signature and she'll change it for you (not immediately because she does them in batches, but soon enough)


    Or we could just call you Ent :D
     
  12. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    Or Ente. :rommie:


    Do we know whether the CinC; Commander, Starfleet, etc. are just different titles for the same position (like addressing a LCMDR as commander), or acutally different positions?
     
  13. JonoKyle

    JonoKyle Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    I am not sure if it has ever been confirmed, but from my understanding the four most senior positions within Starfleet in order were:

    Commander-in-Chief - Overall person in charge of Starfleet.

    Chief of Staff - Commander-in-Chief's deputy

    Commander, Starfleet - Person in charge of Starfleet services on Earth/Sol sector only, including Starfleet HQ & Academy. Chief of Staff would most likely be their direct supervisor.

    Chief of Starfleet Operations - Overall person in charge of the individual divisions with Starfleet (Security, Fleet Ops, Intelligence, Medical etc.). Chief of Staff would most likely be their direct supervisor.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I don't think that's right. After all, "Fleet Ops" is short for "Starfleet Operations," so how it be just one division yet also be in charge of all the divisions including itself?

    From what I was told when I researched the question for Ex Machina, it would probably be analogous to the US Chief of Naval Operations, who's responsible for the command and control of the ships of the fleet, supervising their deployments and operations, and overseeing their maintenance, refits, etc. As Dayton Ward explained it to me in a post on the PsiPhi message board (which I can't link to anymore, but copied in my notes):

    In other words, the CSO would pretty much be to Starfleet as a whole what Data is to the Enterprise or Harry Kim to Voyager -- the officer responsible for allocating and coordinating the resources and personnel necessary to carry out the commanding officer's orders and working with other department heads to determine how that needs to be done.

    So I think the description you offer for CSO should really be for the commanding admiral, e.g. Nogura. Which is probably the same thing as either "Commander, Starfleet" or Chief of Staff, I'm not sure.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    I always thought those were all different names for the same position: the top admiral in Starfleet.
     
  16. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    Yeah, that's what I thought too. It's a bit simplified, but I thought Kirk was the highest ranked redshirt in Starfleet in the early 2270s. And so per DTI: Forgotten History, Admiral Antonio Delgado, the Chief of Starfleet Science Operations, is the highest ranked blueshirt in Starfleet.

    I've always thought that C-in-C ranked just above Chief of Staff, but I don't know what to think of C-in-C in relation to Commander, Starfleet or Commanding Officer, Starfleet Command. I just realized that Protectors, Rough Beasts of Empire, The Struggle Within, Raise the Dawn, Silent Weapons, etc refer to Akaar as "Commander in Chief (of Starfleet)", but The Crimson Shadow refers to him as "Commanding Officer of Starfleet Command". So I guess those two terms are synonymous.

    And I can't find any novel set in the 24th century that refers to a "Chief of Staff of Starfleet". Nor any novel set in the mid-23rd century that refers to a "Commander in Chief of Starfleet".

    Y'know, why wasn't William Ross ever referred to as the "Commander in Chief"? It completely fits him.
     
  17. Cicero

    Cicero Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    Tanusha
  18. Jakks

    Jakks Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Location:
    California - U. S. A.
    'CinC' Commander in Chief...normally only applies to the President. In Star Trek that may be different.

    Commander Starfleet, Starfleet Commander whatever, looks to be the title for the head of Starfleet that's been used on screen.

    'Chief of Staff' is (in the real world) mostly an administrative assistant position and not in the direct chain-of-command....ie: the Starfleet Commander would have a 'Chief of Staff' to assist in the daily running of the commander's office....the CoS would not take over if the Commander was incapacitated...that would fall to the Deputy Starfleet Commander (if there is one) or the next designated senior officer. (Probably Chief of Starfleet Operations)

    And don't confuse 'chief of staff' with the title Commander of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that the US military has...whole different ball of wax.

    In the Star Trek universe its been pretty well established that there is an over all 'Commander' in charge of Starfleet...followed by chief's of other departments...Chief of Starfleet Operations, Chief of Starfleet Logistics, Chief of Starfleet Personnel, so on and so forth.

    Wasn't Kirk at the time of TMP listed as 'Head of Starfleet Operation/Chief of SF Operations'?...and he still had to go 'upstairs' to talk Nogura into giving him the Enterprise back. Indicating that 'Chief of operations was a subordinate position to the Starfleet Commander.
     
  19. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    That part has already been clearly established.
     
  20. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Location:
    Right where I want to be
    Yes, it is different. As mentioned upthread, Admiral "Bill" in TUC was referred to as the C-in-C. (Although, IIRC, the credits identified this as "Chief in Command", but every other source seems to have gone with "Commander in Chief" instead.)

    I believe Morrow in TSFS identified himself as "Commander, Starfleet".

    I'm just going from memory here, but I think it was the Starfleet org chart in FJ's Technical Manual that first put forward the idea that the top officer in Starfleet had the title "Chief of Staff".