Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by ZeNd, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. JD5000

    JD5000 Captain Captain

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    ^ I agree that we have no basis for comparison. For me that's what makes it an interesting topic for discussion. The back-and-forth doesn't do much for the discussion as a whole, but it did help me think about my own views on the character(s). If anyone else has any thoughts, I promise that I won't try to tell you that you're wrong, because I would be wrong to do so :)

    PS: I definitely do NOT think Dax is suicidal, quite the opposite. I think it thinks about it's own life and purpose for being here and disregards that of whichever host it happens to be living in at the time.
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I mention that because at the time, Jadzia Dax et al believed that the number of compatible hosts was quite small. They should all have believed that the new Dax might die soon.
     
  3. JD5000

    JD5000 Captain Captain

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    That brings up an interesting point that I read about recently in "Worlds of Deep Space Nine: Trill and Bajor"

    In this book, the symbionts are aware of the fact that the Symbiosis Committee has been lying to the Trill people about the actual number of potential hosts, in order to keep the symbionts from becoming 'a commodity to be bought and sold'. The Great Old Ones actually communicate a LOT of knowledge directly to Ezri that isn't commonly known, that's what causes the conflict in the story. Dax understands this directly, and it's shown in canon, because of it's link with Joran Belar and Verad. It is not clear, however, if the symbiont has the ability to hide this information from the host. I believe it does have selective control over what memories it shares, and which ones it doesn't. Jadzia has to go through that special secret ritual just to uncover the fact that Dax and Joran were ever linked.

    There's a chance that a 'spoiler alert' may not be needed there, but better safe than sorry if bringing non-canon, novel stuff into the discussion.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    ^All I know is that when it came to the biggest reveal of Jadzia Dax's character--on par with exposing Bashir as an augment or Riker's role in the Pegasus disaster--the character was asleep! A producer or writer must have thought, "There is no fucking way we can let Terry Farrell 'act' at this critical moment. Put her under!"
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would say it's very clear that Dax can hide information from the host. Jadzia had no idea that Curzon loved her until he admitted it while "linked" with Odo.
     
  6. JD5000

    JD5000 Captain Captain

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    ^ You're correct, I should have phrased that better. In addition to Curzon's creepy old man crush, the fact that Jadzia didn't know about Joran until the discovering the presence of his musical compositions in her head made her realize something was up.

    That would have been better to say 'it's not clear how much information the symbiont can hide from the host, or it's motivations for doing so.'
     
  7. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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  8. naverhtrad

    naverhtrad Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    True. Going the other way, too, actually: if Dax had gained all of Odo's memories and experiences and Jadzia then became aware of them (obviously she became aware of some of them since she could talk to Odo about what it was like to shape-shift), she wouldn't have been so clueless or tactless later on with regard to Odo's unrequited interest in Kira.

    If we can attribute that to the symbiont hiding some of its own experience from its host, so much the better - I'd hate to think that was bad writing!
     
  9. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    If memory retrieval were so perfect for joined Trills (it isn't for humans), there would be no reason for the zhian'tara. There would be nothing to learn, nothing to be revealed.
     
  10. Jonny

    Jonny Commander Red Shirt

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  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Did the Dax symbiont intentionally hide that from Jadzia though or was it just lost in Dax's confused emotions about the affair.

    A canon source never gave us a real insight into how the symbionts think when they aren't joined but it's pretty clear they don't have thoughts separate from their host while joined.

    Most of the hosts are given the choice whether or not to be joined. Ezri was the exception. She had a choice but she really didn't, because if she didn't she would be known forever as the Trill who let the Dax symbiont die. Her joining is morally problematic.
     
  12. mendelin

    mendelin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think, Ezri was completely unnecessary in 7th season. She took much screentime, but her story wasn't essential for main plot. Ezri is not worst, she is just unnecessary.
     
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If they were going to replace Dax it wouldn't have worked if they'd brought in a stranger, there wouldn't have been time to form a rapport with the other characters.

    They either needed no replacement, or they needed a Dax, or they needed to give secondary characters more prominent roles.
     
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    "Now playing Jadzia Dax, Nicole de Boers." If soap opera fans can adjust, so could Trek fans.
     
  15. Frontier

    Frontier Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For a long time, everyone seemed to love Ezri. But in the past few years, everyone seems to have finally woken up and realized what a blithering twit and a waste of valuable final season story time she was. It warms my heart. :)

    I'm also curious how much of the turnaround on Ezri is because of the interview Terry Farrell did a few years ago revealing she was willing to continue as Jadzia in a reduced role. I think that may have shifted a lot of people in a subconscious way to say "Woah, hold on; we got shafted with Ezri because of producer/writer spite about an actor wanting less screen time?"
     
  16. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ezri is by no means my favorite character, but I have to think if I happened to be the person in charge, and Terry quit, and I knew her character had a slug that could be transplanted into another character, keeping half of the character alive so to speak, sounds like it might be something fun and unique to write. I might even look forward to it. Hindsight, yeah, I think I would have handled it differently. It would have played much stronger if they just killed her off completely, or had her come back in a recurring role if that was actually an option (remember there are 2 sides to every story). But that's really easy for me to say. And looking at the possibilities, I think they were onto something with the idea at least. But yeah, she's not my favorite character by a long shot.
     
  17. Anna Yolei

    Anna Yolei Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For a long time, everyone seemed to love Ezri. But in the past few years, everyone seems to have finally woken up and realized what a blithering twit and a waste of valuable final season story time she was. It warms my heart.

    funny you say that, 'cuz the first time I watched DS9 all the way through, I didn't care much for Ezri. But after a second viewing Ezri works far more for me than Jadzia ever did because for all the valid complaints about her being unnecessary, Ezri was her own character.

    Jadzia never worked for me, and it's only been recently that's I've been able to figure out why: Look through the first three seasons of the series, and tell me how many episodes Jadzia has that are directly about her and not Curzon or anything having to do with being a host to the Dax symbiote. I'll wait....the only one that jumps to mind was the one-off romance with the guy whose city disappears for years at a time, and I can't even tell you the name of that one.

    Basically, Jadzia Dax was not Jadzia so much as she was Dax. As someone pointed out a few pages back, she jumps through so many personalities and granted Terry Ferrel pulls them off pretty well, saving the charcater from being a complete bust....but so much of that was supposedly attributed to the symbiot, not the woman named Jadzia.

    Ezri, I found far more interesting because the crew DIDN'T bring up her past lives with her, the obvious exception being Worf. I would agree that bringing a brand new character like this was not the best idea; if anything, TIIC should've replaced Jadzia sooner. :borg:
     
  18. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think one season of missed opportunities is worse that six season of marginal acting, though I have no interest in choosing between the two.
     
  19. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Very interesting observations! :techman: But even though I can't argue with that, I still have a softer spot in my heart for Jadzia than Ezri. At least I don't hate Ezri now like I did the first time though. ;)
     
  20. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    If the actor can carry off the previous storyline, that's all well and good. But sometimes it's just not possible, so they have to "take the character in another direction" and if that means retconning to ridiculous lengths, that's what they do.

    DS9 had soapish elements to it, but not to the extent that it would have been at all reasonable to expect Nicole de Boer to pull off the same kinds of storylines and acting that Terry Farrell did (please note that I am not praising Terry Farrell, because I loathed Jadzia).

    Was this before or after she did the interview where she bitched about all the secondary characters getting storylines and eating up HER valuable screen time?