Abrams turns Star Wars because of his "loyalty" to Trek

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by brian577, Dec 25, 2012.

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  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I agree the Trek XI just presented carricatures of the TOS cast, but especially Scotty and Chekov. Scotty was not a comedic character in TOS, he was a serious character who happened to also be funny. Trek XI overdid the whole V/W reversal with Chekov. Every line of dialogue included a V or a W just so he could pronounce it the opposite way. The V/W reversal wasn't focused on in TOS at all, with the exception of Trek IV. And that's why the Nuclear Wessel line stands out so.
     
  2. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Pegg is terrible but the character has gone through severe character degradation since TOS anyway. The movies made him increasingly incompetent (Remember Star Trek V?) and in the TNG episode Relics he's just a weird goofy slob.
     
  3. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think Doctor Who is a good example. It's not being a fan per se that's a problem, but it's an unwillingness to shake things up that is. RTD killed off all Time Lords and made the show center around modern day Earth. That upset a lot of people. But he also liked the original show and used it as inspiration. Moffat, likewise, hasn't undone those aspects of RTD's time. Nor has he returned to the half-hour serial model. In fact, Moffat is an even bigger fan of an ongoing story arc rather than self-contained stories. Finally, neither one has seemed to care about continuity unless it is useful. So, while the show having a fan in charge hasn't been harmful, it hasn't seen the supposed advantages of having a fan in charge either.

    Anyway, I think Abrams takes two elements from the original series and uses them well. One is a sense of adventure, which, admittedly, is in Star Wars as well. However, the other is an established organization and crew. While he breaks the rules to put Kirk quickly in charge, I think he does that well also (and it isn't something that fits Star Wars). The rest was as much fan wishful thinking as true (while there are plenty of good episodes that stand for more, there's also Omega Glory, Let that Be Your Last Battlefield, etc.).
     
  4. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Abrams Trek had some slight themes of friendship and destiny, but largely the story was very thin and Abrams and crew have admitted as much.

    The Voyage Home?
     
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm reminded of what Fry from Futurama said about Star Trek--"79 episodes, about 30 good ones". :lol:
     
  6. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, Pegg was the only casting that I'm still not crazy about with the new movie. The other actors did a pretty good job blending in with their characters, but Simon Pegg just stood out like a sore thumb, and didn't really feel much at all like Scotty.
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    An exception, but not without action elements. Whale Probe attacking Earth. Chekov on the Enterprise. The BOP vs the whaler. The BOP landing in the Bay.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought they were close to giving us a really nice looking ship, just some issues with how its proportioned and the nacelles needed a little more space between them.
     
  9. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    The Voyage Home was character-driven rather than action driven. I don't think that can be denied. However, I also think it had the thinnest themes of any with the possible exception of The Final Frontier. I don't think it can be a model either unless the audience loves all the characters (it's too soon for that). If not Trouble with Tribbles, it's still reminiscent of one of the lighter TOS episodes.
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They tried to use TVH as a model for the next film and wound up with the worst Trek movie ever. :lol:
     
  11. Kirby

    Kirby Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :lol:
     
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would use the word "catastrophic".
     
  13. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's just BS. Most fans cared about good characters in good stories. For me continuity was a sign of quality. That the people making Trek actually cared about what they were doing. When people complain about "continuity" the mistake is so blatant a mistake even non-fans notice.

    Let's talk about continuity. If it wasn't such a big deal why does JJTrek create an entirely new alternate universe. For some strange reason, this bold filmmaker is afraid of a bunch of online fans.
     
  14. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TVH also worked because the last two films were so dark and depressing. I don't think Trek could get any darker unless Kirk was gang raped by Tribbles.
     
  15. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Certainly, continuity was a huge reason why DS9 worked as well as it did, with all it's complex, interweaving storylines and nods to the past. But by the end of ENT and Nemesis, I think it was starting to feel more like a huge weight on the franchise.

    ENT always felt constrained by the history it had to adhere to, and the ongoing drama and politics surrounding the Federation, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Dominion, etc in the 24th century was starting to become pretty tiresome as well. And then there's 5 series and 10 movies of stories that had to be followed....

    As far as I'm concerned, JJ's Trek couldn't have come at a better time, and was a huge breath of fresh air.
     
  16. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ENT and Nemesis didn't even care for continuity, so there was none of that weight to begin with. ENT and Nemesis failed because they were badly made, it had nothing to do with continuity.
     
  17. Servo

    Servo Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was thinking about the new Star Wars films recently, and who would be a good pick to write and direct, and I had a thought; if you wanted people who are fans of the original trilogy, are aware of what worked and what didn't in the PT, smart enough to not get bogged down with fanwank, have a proven record of good character writing, and are actually in touch with the sci-fi community both personally and professionally, then there are two names that spring to mind who I think would be worth taking a risk on... Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    What about Scotty drinking the Kelvan under the table in "By Any Other Name"? Or starting a bar brawl over an insult to the Enterprise in "Tribbles"?

    I didn't much remember Scotty being comic relief in the old TV series until I rewatched it last year.
     
  19. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So Sir Arthur Conan Doyle isn't a quality writer to you? because I don't think he really cared that much about it what with Watson's war wound changing every book.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    How so? It doesn't really improve the quality of the acting, writing, set design, direction, props....well, you get the idea.
     
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