Abrams Directing Star Wars

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Kamdan, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. ThunderAeroI

    ThunderAeroI Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well I am talking about the shows. What is it that makes them different, what about their souls are different.
     
  2. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Does that matter? Even if their "souls" are different, that just means that a director has to adapt his style to fit the tone or genre or "soul" of whatever his current project is.

    There's no reason a director can't make a gritty crime drama, then turn around and make a frothy romantic comedy that's completely different in tone. Ditto with different varieties of science fiction and space opera. You do STAR WARS when you're doing STAR WARS and you do STAR TREK when you're doing STAR TREK . . . and, hopefully, you don't forget which franchise you're working on today. :)

    To paraphrase Mae West, "souls" have nothing to with it! :)
     
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm all about the burgers.

    All of this talk about "souls" boils down to, well, what talk about souls always does: a distraction from what's real. When you run out of actual facts to support your position, start gibbering about "soul," and "essence." Since neither are actual entities that can be defined, you can claim whatever you want.
     
  4. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    OK, then how about this: "Star Trek" is like a nice lager, while "Star Wars" is more of an ale....

    I certainly think Abrams will be capable of both. He's got a chance to basically manage the team he grew up rooting for as a kid. Based on that, and the ownership he probably feels for SW as a life-long fan, it will be interesting to see if SW fans think he caught the franchise's "soul" or not. They may scrutinize him and be more critical than some Trek fans were.
     
  5. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Getting thirsty now after eating all these burgers.
     
  6. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Don't get me started on burgers. The last thing you need is another one of my patented commercials for Red Robin's Whiskey River BBQ Burger.
     
  7. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All this talk of the souls and such of Trek and SW just made me wonder if in the case of directing SW, could Abrams actually rape his own childhood?
     
  8. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    I am glad to find that we are in agreement.


    It's a hypothetical imperative. If you want "X," you should do "Y." In our case, the hypothetical is economic: If you wish to make money with a film franchise, then you should be attentive to tastes of your audience.

    If they wish to make money (trust me, they do), then they should be attentive to the tastes of their audience. If they wish to make money, they owe us something attuned to our tastes, so that the bills will flow freely from our pockets.


    If they wish to make money (past opening day), we are owed satisfaction.

    We should note that the "economic" and "property" defenses of these franchises we find on these boards assert a creative, even arbitrary license enjoyed by the studio.

    Hence we find statements like,

    "Their only job is to make money. They have no responsibility to please hard core fans."

    "They own it. They paid for it. They can do whatever they wish!"


    I have participated in making statements like these myself, but we should note that these comments have limits. More importantly we should note that the warrants of economy and property implicate us in discussions of both.

    If we are to deprecate artistic/thematic concerns in light of the ruthless demands of business, then it is only sensible to consider not only what demands studios make of films, but what demands stakeholders make of studios. If we are to play the economic Darwinism card, then we will find that it is Darwinism all the way down, and that even our puffed up studio chiefs are themselves just scrambling for a piece of the action in the great circle of life (if you can excuse a Disney reference and Trek reference in the same sentence).

    In short, this is not mere pedantry, but a natural implication of swimming into these waters.

    You're still not quite grasping the economic imperative. The shareholder is only one aspect of this relationship. To the extent that the simply wish to succeed, they must respect the tastes of their audience.

    Well, if we are speaking of "artists," then we are speaking of individuals who may not wish to profit and who are not beholden to make profits for anyone else. Artists may simply wish make art for art's sake and have no (or a very limited) desire to even exhibit their artwork.

    Producers and studios, however, are not artists, but people seek profit through entertainment. And those who promise entertainment in exchange for payment (e.g., musicians, jugglers, singers, hypnotists, magicians, popular writers) are indeed obligated to deliver what they promise. Should they fail to meet that obligation, their mandate of profit will not be met. Pure and simple.
     
  9. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Disturbing. :lol:
     
  12. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  13. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm more of a hamburger guy myself. Dairy and I don't get along.

    Five Guys is dangerously good. It's probably just as well the nearest outlet is about an hour away.
     
  14. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    ts;dc
     
  15. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    I understand the economic imperative just fine, thanks. And while "respect[ing] the tastes of their audience" is certainly helpful for success, it is not strictly required that they do so. They can choose to try something new and hope it works out.

    That said, it is overwhelmingly clear that Abrams has "respect[ed] the taste of [his] audience". That he has not respected the tastes of a small minority of the audience does not obviate his overall success. And that's because he doesn't OWE any particular member of the audience anything other than a product to experience. And that remains the ONLY thing he, or any other producer of entertainment, owes the audience (and only for some form of compensation).


    As long as they provide an entertainment product, in exchange for compensation, they owe the audience nothing else. Certainly not individual satisfaction. They hope they provide satisfaction--they are not obligated in any way to ensure it. That is true whether it's a busker in the metro station or the next installment of Superman on the big screen.

    No matter how fanatical one might be about a particular form of entertainment, "satisfaction is NOT guaranteed".
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    So then we all agree that Abrams met that mandate?

    This isn't something nebulous like TV ratings, where we can argue about things like the effect time-shifting and downloading shows can affect ratings.

    Paramount spent 'A' amount of dollars on the project, and earned 'X' from ticket sales, 'Y' from home video and 'Z' from broadcast/cable rights. If 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' are far greater than 'A', then Abrams satisfied his employers and seemingly the public that bought the product.

    We can argue the artistic merit til the end of time, that is going to mean something different to each individual, but the economic argument that Abrams didn't do his job simply doesn't exist.
     
  17. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    And he didn't even have to consult "the audience" ahead of time to do it. Imagine.
     
  18. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I said "no licking". Now behave.

    Warning for flaming. Comments to PM.
     
  19. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Come on guys.

    Star Trek TOS: 1966
    Star Trek TNG: 1987 (Delta = 21)
    Star Trek XI: 2009 (Delta = 22)

    I prefer the TNG era Treks to the new films, but why shouldn't Trek be re-thought for a modern audience?

    There's just no reason to be so protective over franchises. I was pissed when Lucas tried to erase his original cuts from history, but as long as I still have the originals available for me I don't care about whatever other new installments come out.

    Out of all the people who could have possibly been asked to make a new Star Wars or Star Trek film, the only two people who could have not completely butchered it are Abrams and Wheadon.

    I look forward to seeing the next completely re-imagined version of Star Trek in 2031.
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's just crazy talk!