Abrams chronology and canon questions

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Jsplinis, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. Jsplinis

    Jsplinis Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It has pretty much been confirmed that Countdown, Countdown to Darkness, Ongoing and the Star Trek Video Game are canon in the Abrams-verses based on interviews with Roberto Orci. However, I was curious about the Nero mini-series. While it is based on story written for Star Trek XI, these scenes were cut and never restored. Additionally, the Klingons in these scenes don't match up to Into Darkness. I know Orci is credited, but it may be in the sense of the cut scenes being written by him for the movie similar to cut scenes in a novelization or the IDW adaption.

    Any thoughts or insights?

    Also, which happens first, Countdown to Darkness or The Video Game? Both end with them being ordered to Nibiru. But CTD begins with them ordered to Phadeus and I haven't played the game. Could it be that they were ordered to Phadeus first, to drop off April second, then to Nidiru. But on the way to Nibiru they were sidetracked by the events of The Video Game? Thoughts?

    Thanks and have fun,
    jsplinis
     
  2. BlueMetroid

    BlueMetroid Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I Tweeted Orci and asked the very question you pose...Game or CTD first...he replied with "game first". I hope that helps!
     
  3. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting. I think the other way (comic then game) makes much more sense.
     
  4. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    I appreciate the attention to detail between Trekverse-1 and Trekverse-2's EU. Both are stupendous.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Since when? Orci's said repeatedly over the past several years that he accepts the standard Trek policy that only onscreen material is canon. There was that one time that Anthony Pascale at TrekMovie interviewed him and basically browbeat him into agreeing that the tie-ins should be canon, and Orci said "Okay, they're canon" basically to shut him up, and then retracted it a comment the very next day.

    And there are plenty of things in the Ongoing comic that have been blatantly contradicted by Into Darkness -- crewmembers dying in the first two storylines, Sulu holding the conn in a couple of storylines, Scotty continuing to develop transwarp beaming when the film said the tech was confiscated by Starfleet, etc. Countdown had some inconsistencies with the first film as well, like painting a backstory of a Nero-Spock friendship when the dialogue in the film ("He called himself Nero") suggested they'd never met before their clash at the supernova site.

    I've been following some of Orci's comments on TrekMovie lately, and frankly I think people take them far too literally and seriously. I think to some extent he just plays along with others' suggestions in a "Sure, why not, whatever you say" kind of manner, rather than issuing formal declarations of official policy.


    In what way? If you mean their appearance, the Klingons have had so many designs over the decades that that hardly matters.


    Given the inconsistencies, I suspect he basically just provides some rough outline notes and then leaves it to the comics' writer, who isn't necessarily briefed on every detail of the film.


    See, what I was told earlier in another thread was that the game probably came second, because there's a gap of nearly a month between the "stardates" of CTD and STID, even though the ship is ordered to Nibiru at the end of CTD. Being diverted by a distress call as in the game would seem to be the most likely explanation for that.
     
  6. Idran

    Idran Commodore Commodore

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    Happens in every fandom. :D
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Definitely agree with that. Particularly the whole thing about the comics featuring hidden easter eggs for STID which had everyone trpping over themselves thinking every little detail was set-up for the movie.

    In the end, what was in the comics that got into the movie? The Return of the Archons story gave us shady Starfleet officers who might be Section 31, the Tribble story could explain why Bones has a dead Tribble in sickbay, and the Scotty origin story had a reference to Admiral Marcus.
     
  8. Jsplinis

    Jsplinis Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    ...and the explanation of Mudd's ship is in Countdown to Darkness.
     
  9. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    Mudd's wife is finally revealed as a Bajoran woman who took his ship in the divorce!
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Plus Hendorff's name, and the stuff in Countdown to Darkness. And a running thread in multiple issues about Spock taking reckless chances. And let's see, "Archons" ends with an unseen admiral (presumably Marcus) warning Pike that there will be consequences if Kirk goes rogue again. So a mix of trivial details and things that actually have plot or character significance.
     
  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, Countdown to Darkness. I was referring only to the Ongoing series. Countdown to Darkness is seperate.
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. We saw one Klingon with piercings and unusual eye colour. And his crest was a little reminiscent of Colonel Worf's from ST VI. Doesn't mean they all look like that under their helmets.

    Has Bajoran been specified? The daughter has a Bajoran-like nose ridge.

    I wonder if the comic script suggested she was K'Normian and no one on the art team found that one TMP photo reference?
     
  13. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nothing in the text. I'm still treating her as human (and the ridges as an art error) until a later comic establishes otherwise.
     
  14. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    One of my favorite retcons before Enterprise (it was for my home tabletop RPG) is the variation on Klingon appearances is due to Klingons having multiple subraces and citizen races referred to as Klingon.
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Have you looked at the variations in humans lately?
     
  16. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    Indeed. I never thought we needed Klingon retcons (I'm a Doylist versus a Watsonian) because it's just a show but I think the idea the Klingons are just diverse is something which gets overlooked.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I hinted at something like that in Ex Machina (which was written before "Affliction"/'Divergence"). To some extent it's still reasonable to assume they have more variants than just regular and QuchHa', since there are so many different types of ridged Klingon that we've seen. For instance, the TMP Klingons had foreheads unlike any others, and the later movie Klingons had much more sexual dimorphism, with very subtle ridges on the females.
     
  18. RPJOB

    RPJOB Commander Red Shirt

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    When today we've got people having leopard skin tattoos over their entire body, having horn's implanted on their foreheads, having their tongues split to resemble lizards and numerous other body modifications I would imagine in a world with real aliens for inspiration there's a fair numer of people that have surgery to resemble and number of alien races.

    For all we know only 10% of the aliens we see in that background are actually aliens. The rest could be altered humans.

    http://justereaders.com/2011/04/vampire-woman35-has-titanium-horns-implanted/

    http://www.tattoostime.com/leopard-spots-tattoos-on-full-body/
     
  19. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One humorous line in "Shocks of Adversity" had an alien surprised that Spock wasn't human and attributing his ears to genetic variation.
     
  20. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    FMI (for my information), how many years in-universe to Hobus in the Lit verse?