Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the works

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Temis the Vorta, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Yeah, I thought Liam Neeson a lot when I saw the film. I can see why Spielberg was trying to cast him forever in his long-talked about Lincoln movie.
     
  2. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    I liked the movie. I'll give it a solid B. Visually, the film felt off for a lot of scenes, but Ben Walker did a great job with the Lincoln character.

    I would like to have seen more of Adam's background. As the chief antagonist, he came across as a bit sketchy. But I got a kick out of the character and his ambitions.

    Apparently, there are differences between the book's ending and the movie's. I'd say that I would have loved the book's ending ... I turned to my wife near the end and whispered, "Hey, I wonder if Henry will [spoilers]"

    I saw it in 3D, and as I said, the film didn't work well visually in some scenes. Many were murky and hard to make out details. That's to be expected in a vampire flick, but much of it felt low budget. The 3D gags were mostly tired, but they played with the concept; including bats that flew away from the camera instead of towards it, and distracting dust particles that slowly drifted around in dialog-intensive scenes.

    Glad I saw it. Worth the money. Will eventually own on disc. Will probably read the book now.
     
  3. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Deadline's done an about-face on their BO predictions. Sadly, not as good as expected (17M for the weekend). Everyone who wants to see this puppy, get to the theaters now! (I'll be going in a few days.)
     
  4. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    No, people, listen to io9, and don't bother! :p
    A film like Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter is fascinating because it takes our claim that we're "over slavery" at face value — since we've all gotten over it, and it's no longer an issue, let's make a silly-but-taking-itself-kinda-seriously action movie about it. And yet, somewhere along the way, the makers of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter probably realized that Americans really haven't gotten over slavery and the Civil War as much as we like to claim. Hence the fact that this film is really choppily edited — you get the sense that key scenes were taken out at the last moment.

    Anyone who wants to see quite how wrong and pointless vampire stories can get should definitely rent Abraham Lincoln at some point. If your friends do drag you to this film in the theater, though, a bit of advice — take a half-hour pee break when he becomes president. The movie literally drags to a halt once he's got the famous beard.

    And in not bothering, also kill off any remaining life-signs of the rightfully comatose Pride and Prejudice and Zombies adaptation while you're at it! :bolian:
     
  5. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    io9 sometimes goes overboard in their reviews. It did slow down when Lincoln got in the Oval Office but it certainly did not "grind to a halt".

    I enjoyed the film. The action scenes were fantastic, the plot was a bit cheesy as expected, and the actors were fantastic. There were plenty of historical nods and jokes throughout the film, but there were a few deaths that happened too soon or too late that irked me.

    Overall I'd give it a solid B.
     
  6. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Yes, i09 is frankly full of shit by stating the film "grinds to a halt" at that point. It does slow down, but that is because we move from straightforward action to more political intrigue. I guess the reviewer thought he would go on hunting vampires by night while President during the day.

    I give it a B plus for the same reasons as Psion.
     
  7. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    I really enjoyed this film. I wasn't sure what to expect going in, but overall I was pleased when the film ended. It wasn't perfect, but I liked how it mixed history and fantasy for the most part. The idea of vampires using the slave system to supply them with food was a pretty interesting idea and weaved them easily into the antebellum period. I also liked that the vampires had a distinctive look and an interesting power set that made them stand out from run-of-the-mill vamps.

    The cast was good for the most part. I thought the guy playing Lincoln did a fine job. He reminded me of a young Liam Neeson.

    The film wasn't without faults. I thought the two biggest action scenes could've been shot better to capture the action better. They were hard to follow. With the horse stampede there was way too much dust and too much CGI, which added to the overall improbability of the sequence. Plus I was surprised that there were canyons in Indiana or Illinois.

    As for the big train scene at the end, I really found the action hard to follow when the vamps were first attacking the train. Way too much fog.

    Other issues I had with the film:

    -I thought the female assassin's last stand was way too contrived to just get Mary T. Lincoln into the action. It didn't make much sense for her to just stroll into the Union camp and then charge Mary head on, without even using her powers. And also why would she reveal herself to all of those soldiers? Up until that time the vampires had largely kept to the shadows.
    -I thought Speed's betrayal could've been better thought out or written. It was like they were hedging on it. I wasn't sure if he really betrayed Lincoln or if it was all part of some plan of his to trap the vampires, of which he just didn't inform Lincoln? Maybe he was lying about that part, but the way it was played, Speed seemed concerned about Lincoln's well being on the train. But at the same time he seemed genuinely surprised that the train didn't contain any silver. I wish they had just made Speed a clear traitor. We had already seen his coolness to Will, and we had seen Lincoln's dismissive attitude towards him during his wedding to Mary. I could easily see Speed's jealousy of Will being something that could've led him to work with the vamps much earlier. In fact, I was expecting him to betray Lincoln when they busted up Adam's plantation get together.
    -I thought the film's internal vampire logic took a hit during the train battle between Henry and Adam. Earlier, Henry couldn't get close enough to nick Adam with a knife, because vamps couldn't kill each other. However that didn't stop them from pummeling each other nearly to death on the train?
    -Also, how did Henry get off the train, to be on the track just at the right spot to save Lincoln and Will?
    -Not really a quibble, but I wonder what happened to Will at the end of the film? Why wasn't he at the White House with Henry or Lincoln at the end?
     
  8. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Joshua Speed jealous? Lincoln sharing a bed with Speed for two or three years when they were young lawyers makes that relationship a centerpiece of the gay Lincoln claim. What's the subtext in the movie on this?
     
  9. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    I thought that it was obvious that Joshua Speed didn't betray Lincoln but in fact was a part of the plan to lure all of the vampires onto the train?
     
  10. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  11. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Gotta question here - maybe somebody who read the book can answer. It isn't clear in the film how vampires are made. We see one made, and it looks to me like basically Adam bites them and they're turned. Did I miss something there?
     
  12. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    ^ I had the same question actually; the vampire lore in the movie seems slightly fuzzy in a couple places, and how people get turned is one of them. Of course, I have been watching Buffy lately, so more used to that being spelled out.

    Also, as pointed out, it seems odd that at one point Henry couldn't touch Adam, but at the end they could beat on each other no problem. Maybe Adam was just lying and had Henry in some sort of thrall the first time? Afterall, Henry also had no problem throwing around Coats on the docks. Actually, it could be as simple as vampries can't kill other vampires but can wail on each other no problem - hence the silver knife Henry couldn't use.

    However, despite these minor quibbles I thought it was very good overall. Ben Walker did a great job as Abe and I agree with the "young Liam Neeson" remarks. Would've liked to see more Mary Elizabeth Winstead, but that may just be me and she was good in what she got. ;)

    io9 is definitely full of shit, and despite the inherent silliness of the concept and the constant slam-bang action through the first half (the fighting-in-a-herd-of-horses was great) I really really like the story. I mean, if you're going to turn antebellum slaveholders into mythological monsters, vampires is pretty much a perfect fit. Pampered elite sustained on the blood of innocents clinging to old ways maintaining a crafted "romantic" air and holding masses in thrall? Yup.

    It was revealed a bit too quickly I think. I definitely caught it and thought it was a really awesome moment - especially with lying to Henry as well - but it might have flashed by a bit.
     
  13. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Captain Captain

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    If a vampire wants to turn you, all he has to do is bite and inject a large dose of vampire venom, while taking just enough blood to sate it. If it wants to kill you quick, it drains you dry. If it wants you to die slow... well, the book explained it as the vampire giving his victim a "fool's dose" of venom - a small amount that kills you (in extreme agony) without turning you. (That's what happens twice *spoiler warning* in the film.)

    The impression I got was you had to catch the other vampire off-guard to attack - otherwise you get Hypnotoad-eyes from your opponent and freeze. You can't just go charging at 'em.

    This. The very weapons you need to kill your opponent are toxic/lethal to you too.
     
  14. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    There was no bed sharing in the movie. As for subtext to that effect, it did seem to me that Speed was not pleased with Lincoln's close relationship with Will. He was cool to Lincoln taking off from work to help Will with proving he was not a slave and later he had a disappointed on his face when Lincoln ignored him while introducing Will to Henry as his closest friend at Lincoln's wedding. And Speed did decide to give Lincoln a place to stay and a job when he first arrived in Springfield, which he didn't have to do.
     
  15. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    I followed the link to the review. Thanks for posting it. It was an interesting interpretation of the film. Even though I-apparently?-liked the film more than the reviewer I do agree that we as a nation are not 'over' slavery, and also that the movie doesn't really go too deeply in addressing slavery. And I don't have a problem at all with the criticism that the movie trivialized slavery. Though I would say that it trivialized a lot of Lincoln's life as well, including his complicated views on race. To be honest I'm happy that they mentioned slavery at all and showed even a glimpse of it's brutality. I'm also glad there was no moral equivocation of the Confederacy in this film. I think there is a tendency to minimize slavery and to romanticize the Confederacy too much in pop culture. This film didn't do that. Sure it could've explored the horrors of slavery and antebellum politics more, but at the same time its a summer vampire film. I wasn't expecting much and got more than I thought I would.
     
  16. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Thanks for the infor DarKush.
     
  17. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Thanks Nightowl for explaining that. This is the sort of stuff that was lacking in the movie, IMO. It was little things like that which added up.
     
  18. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Just skimming this thread now since it looks like we're getting into more spoilery specifics, but I thought it was worth quoting this insight from Deadline, re the movie's tepid box office:

    As good a The Avengers was, there's a big lesson here for Hollywood in its success: it's based on a comic book AND it's a sequel of a number of movies (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk). If moviegoers aren't sending Hollywood a message with their $$$ that "we want you guys to take risks," then why should they take risks? They'd be perfectly justified just doing nothing but sequels and movies based on comic books and sequels of movies based on comic books from here on out.
     
  19. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Are you saying that Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter is a more original movie than Iron Man or Thor? Because if so, you must be joking: not only is it based on a fairly well-known book, how many vampire movies have there been in the past decade? Heck, even the period vampires angle isn't new: Van Helsing, Underworld 3, BloodRayne, etc. Oh, and don't forget that 1994 Brad Pitt movie that mixed vampires with the Old South.

    If Hollywood is so concerned with giving people what they want, maybe they should aim for a higher Metacritic score than 40. ;)
     
  20. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

    Come on, now, how much of a "risk" is a vampire movie, produced by Tim Burton, based on a best-selling novel?

    As for "originality," it's basicially a remake of "Blade," with Abe Lincoln in the lead.

    The simple fact of the matter is that this movie isn't doing well in large part because it's getting bad reviews and bad word of mouth, not because it's too "original" or "risky."