About the KHAN scream.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Cara007, Nov 22, 2013.

  1. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I was a kid when I saw TWOK in a theater. I don't remember anybody laughing and I took it seriously, as I did Spock's version.
    Maybe I take things too seriously, but I was absorbed by the story, not giving the meta aspects any thought.
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's that time again!

    [​IMG]


    The scream was completely out of place.
    I doubt it would have been better had he just screamed and thrown stuff through the room. Nobody reacts to a death like that.
     
  3. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

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    It seems to me the example you give of Spock "always" having "issues when trying to handle emotional duress ..." is actually a case of massive chemical imbalance. Ie. nothing to do with "emotional duress" from a causative point of view. And while the most obvious outward signs of the Pon Farr may not have been present, how can we know what Spock was going through at that moment just because he was mostly keeping a lid on it?


    Well, as I mentioned, apart from totally different you mean?


    I can appreciate you POV and while I don't hate the scream on theological grounds, it comes off as bad taste and rubs my nose in the originality problem. Too be honest, it doesn't bother me much even so (in a film that doesn't bother me actually). They probably thought most people who saw the movie wouldn't connect it with anything and I suspect they were right. So I think putting it in was more a case of trying to be clever than an excess of balls. ;)
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But.. I thought we mocked it because we loved it?
     
  5. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They already had a homage to the Khan scream in Trek 09, when Nero shouts "Spock!" in anger. And there it was much more organic.
     
  6. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    How do you know?

    Oh wait. You don't.
     
  7. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Sooooo.... now every time someone yells a name in Trek it's an homage to the 'Khan' scream?

    Yeah... riiiiiight...
     
  8. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Cuz Star Trek was the first to do it...
     
  9. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    OMG CorporalClegg your avatar is killing me! I love it!:lol::lol:
    Is that an actual screencap from TAS? I've never seen it, but I went ahead and picked up TAS when I got my TOS blu rays, so I'll be watching TAS for the first time when I finish my marathon of TOS.
     
  10. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks! :techman: It's courtesy of CorporalCaptain. And, yes, it's from the TAS episode Mudd's Passion.
     
  11. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    This bodes really well for how much I'm going to like TAS :)
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The animation looks a little cheap and rushed. Other than that the series was very hit and miss, much like the rest of Star Trek. :techman:
     
  13. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Okay, here's the thing:

    Khan doesn't beam Kirk up in the original scream scene because he genuinely believes Kirk has been stranded, and genuinely believes that stranding him is a worse punishment than simply killing him. When he says "I've done worse than kill you" he means it literally.

    Kirk doing the scream is playing along with this notion in order to make the deception work. He is playing the part of a man who has been successfully outwitted by Khan. (The "you're going to have to come down here" line isn't the best, but reads as a taunt out of desperation in this context.)

    I always thought that was really quite obvious in TWOK, I'm surprised to see so many people are confused about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have somehow managed to lose my TAS dvd set. Which is upsetting. And yeah you will love TAS because it's the same actors as voice. Some of it is hilarious.

    I'm going to buy another one.. oh and as I recall the Alan Dean Foster books of TAS were great. And what's really cool is how TOS-R used visuals of Vulcan from TAS in their added scenes.
     
  15. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I am prepared for the animation to be dated and unimpressive. I think the voice acting will be a big win for me still though, and even if the eps are hit or miss, that means some will be hits. And hey, it's Star Trek I've never seen before!
     
  16. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    It's not that it isn't obvious, it's that it just doesn't work. Being left to spend your retirement years in paradise with your family and best friend isn't exactly "punishment."
     
  17. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

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    ST09 was homaging uncontrollably from all orifices. What are chances it wasn't? ;)

    BTW, having taken another look at The Menagerie it does appear my impression of Proto Spock's extroverted nature was unsupported. But he appears to behave no differently to any other human and there are a number of desplays of emotion apart from the ones with the flowers and the women. Certainly there is no indication of any Vulcan emotion suppression going on. So I would still say the two Spocks are very different emotionally even if surface impressions, due to the situations Proto Spock was in, hides that somewhat.

    Of course its the second pilot that takes him a step towards his true self, but still isn't there yet.


    I guess people think Shat oversold it and therefore must have actually meant it. :shrug: But it must be hard to scream "convincingly" without the facial expressiongs. The first time you see it you have no reason to doubt it of course. Then again maybe there was a script change after that?
     
  18. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    I thought both of the screams were silly. Shatner's was just scene chewing, and I can't watch it without either laughing or rolling my eyes. Quinto just didn't sell it. It's an over the top moment (good or bad), ya' got gnaw on the scenery and blow out a lung; he just didn't throw himself into it.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Far as Khan's concerned he's entombing Kirk in a few small chambers "in the center of a dead planet."
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    They ripped off Superman with the TWOK scream. ;)