A Warp Fighter

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Mars, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Location:
    California
    I would say the reason we never hear about a Captain's Yacht on TNG has more to do with Chekhov's Gun than it does with a Yacht not existing. There was never a plot reason to discuss the Yacht, so it was never brought up. We finally see a Yacht in ST: Insurrection, which means it existed in First Contact and in Nemesis, but likewise was never brought up. It would be too complicated to try and implicate that the Yacht was added to the Ent-E prior to the events of Insurrection, and then silently removed afterwards.
     
  2. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Since we saw quantum torps fired from that bulge in First Contact and in Insurrection is now a Captain's Yacht does it fire quantum torps in later movies? Or was it originally a quantum torp launcher and in Insurrection turned into only the yacht and the launcher moved?
     
  3. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Location:
    I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
    Odyssey was fighting at impulse because fighting at warp is EXTREMELY rare post TOS.

    That also doesn't answer the question, does it?
     
  4. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Location:
    California
    If I recall, the torpedoes were fired from slightly above where the Yacht docks, so no.

    The Enterprise-E also was supposed to have 24 decks, but dialog in First Contact talks about a 26th deck, and dialog in Nemesis talks about a 29th deck (where the Viceroy dies by falling down into an abyss... from the 29th deck.) The Enterprise-A was only supposed to have about 20-ish decks, yet the turbolift went up to around deck 80...

    Sometimes, things are mistakes.
     
  5. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    I have the official blueprints for the Enterprise D and there is a Captain's yaht, though I think Picard did not use it, it is part of the starship and detaches much like the saucer section does, which only occurred twice in the series.
     
  6. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Location:
    I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
    From which its absence can be directly inferred: you would expect there be evidence of them if they were in use earlier.

    It's like if you told me the ancient greeks had automobiles and jet fighters. There's no evidence that they did, and that's not the sort of thing that would have existed without leaving a trace of itself.

    Yes, we can bet this because OTHER deep space stations were mentioned and it stands to reason there would be more of them. We can take a pretty good guess that space stations like Deep Space 5 existed some time in the mid to late 24th century because that is when we first hear about them.

    Was there a Deep Space Two back in the 23rd century? Were the DS stations active during Kirk's time? Probably not, since we do hear a mention of someting called Deep Space Station K7" which is otherwise simply referred to as "Station K7."

    We don't know that at all. It's referenced in the TNG manual and in backstage materials for Voyager, but neither of them are ever used. We can likewise infer their absence, because in light of all the many appearances of shuttles and auxiliary craft (TNG even features a runabout) the absence of the Captain's Yacht or Aeroshuttle is particularly conspicuous. In the case of Voyager, they actually chose to build a whole new ship rather than deploy the Aeroshuttle that was supposedly purpose built for exactly that type of mission; the simplest explanation is they don't really HAVE an aeroshuttle and that thing on the bottom of the saucer is just an oddly-shaped sensor array.

    Exactly. There is no tactical reason to launch fighters in ship to ship combat. Unless you're incredibly desperate and heavily outnumbered (which the Maquis, the Bajorans and Starfleet were when they used them).

    Thus they were never needed before -- by Starfleet, at least -- and would not REALLY be needed again once the Klingons joined the fray.
     
  7. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Location:
    I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
    Actually the saucer separated three times (four if you include Generations). And the official blueprints are not considered canon.
     
  8. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Thanks. I also checked and it would appear that the launcher is on that dark band of the bulge. We get a good close-up of it in "First Contact". The launch tube must be very compact since the yacht occupies the space immediately behind it. So it probably is top-fed. That same launcher is fired again in "Nemesis".

    One more edit: it does appear that the nacelles of the yacht in "First Contact" are shorter (or start further back) than the ones in "Insurrection" (plus the yacht lower part looks more smooth out as well.)

    Or they are not mistakes at all. Why can't the E-E have 30+ decks?

    As far as the E-A from "Final Frontier", it is a deliberate mistake as they took great pains to point out how poorly assembled it was. The turbolift deck markings repeat itself so it would not be unusual for it to go up to the number 80 as a result of shoddy workmanship, in-universe that is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  9. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    So am I to assume that the Enterprise doesn't have bathrooms in the official cannon, since they don't show them?
     
  10. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Toilets, and the lack of toilets were mentioned once in DS9 and five times in Enterprise. Bathrooms are spoken of and/or partially seen as well in the various series.
     
  11. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Location:
    I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
    Bathrooms, yes. We've seen as much even in TNG. Just not toilets. Considering whatever they've got on a starship has to be designed to accommodate any conceivable species of any conceivable configuration that would need to use the head, it could be that you're supposed stick your ass/tail/ovipositor/whatever in a specialized replicator slot, do your business and let the transporter beam it away.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    As far as the Captain's Yacht goes, there were pressing reasons to show or mention it in episodes like "Samaritan Snare", where it's a big deal the Captain goes on a personal ride. It was not shown or mentioned. So we either have to invent an explanation that allows it to exist but be unavailable, which is fine if we want to believe in it existing for some other reason (but there is none), or just abandon the idea altogether.

    Why would he stay on Deck 29? He was going to abduct Picard, who was on Deck 1. He walked to his meeting with Riker, who also walked. So if anything, the action would be on Deck 14 or thereabouts.

    Although since the Viceroy was in a hurry, he would not have slowed down to a walk until he was almost at his destination - which might place the meeting much closer to Deck 1. Whereas Riker obviously had no clear idea where the intruders were (battle damage?) - meaning he would have no reason to go all the way down since he'd know the intruders would be coming up at least some of the way (why else intrude?), but he wouldn't have a good reason to step out of the turbolift at any specific deck as such. So, the question isn't so much "where did the meeting take place?" but "why did the meeting take place to begin with?"...

    We might speculate the turbolifts were under the control of the ship's crew and thus the intruders were forced to use the corridors - and further that the corridors were locked in a way that forced the intruders to a confrontation at a specific location. That would be Internal Security 101, really. But that makes one wonder why the security officer pressing the appropriate buttons did not also activate forcefields that would trap the intruders, deploy stun gas, or evacuate breathing air. If "battle damage" is to be our answer to all these questions, then "battle damage" would also be the reason both the villains and the heroes walk all the way - hence they meet on Deck 14.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    The Enterprise has shuttles, there is no reason to use a yacht, also flying in a yacht is an advertisement that some important person is there, its like a general riding on a horse amongst the infantry, any enemy with a little bit of brains would know who to shoot at. My guess is Picard didn't want to wear such a huge "bullseye" on his back.
     
  14. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, MO, USA
    I thought the captain's yacht on the Enterprise-D was a non-utility craft reserved solely for special diplomatic functions and was was the equivalent of a limo--luxurious for VIPs, but not much else.
     
  15. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    ^ That's right, a very important person, so what's an enemy Romulan going to do if he sees the Captain's yacht separate out from the Enterprise when they are in battle?
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Hence Starfleet would never build one.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, MO, USA
    Well, I was thinking it would be a craft that wouldn't be used any potentially dangerous situation, much less a battle. I don't think it would even be armed.

    I think the captain's yacht aboard the Enterprise-E, was built with some tactical sensibilities in mind, though. Picard used it to go after Data's scout craft and it could fire at least tachyon bursts. They're not as destructive as phasers and can be used for many different purposes, but they can disrupt various systems aboard other vessels too.
     
  18. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Location:
    I'm in your ___, ___ing your ___
    All very good reasons not to HAVE a yacht in the first place.
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    In all of Star Trek, there are just two dialogue references to a vehicle called "Captain's Yacht", both from ST:Insurrection. I'd rather prefer to dismiss both. After all, Captains don't have yachts. They might have boats or launches or something. But only civilians have yachts ITRW!

    The first comes from the scene where Picard fails to hide his little insurrection from his fellow officers.

    Now, Troi is actually dribbling with sarcasm here. So it would be pretty easy to read this line as Troi saying "Ah, I see you are equipping our LSL-22 Surface Assault Barge (Heavy) for a mission, Captain"...

    The second is more objective, though.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    So, in other words, there is really conclusive evidence that the Enterprise-E had a Captain's yacht.