A TOS resurgence?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Vger23

    Vger23 Captain Captain

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    Yes, "we" are the ones that buy tickets. And, based on the ticket sales of the last two films, it seems "we" have spoken.

    Again, there's no point in arguing. You've made up your mind and no amount of counter-points can ever change that. No amount of logic will change it.

    And, it's not dismissive to say "that's only your opinion" when the only support you have to your argument is...well...YOUR OPINION. when you dismiss the only objective and relevant measures in the movie industry...what's left? Oh, yes, your opinion. Because the only measurable facts all indicate success and quality. Again, that doesn't mean you need to accept or buy into that that, but it DOES mean that you have been reduced to nothing more (and nothing less) than a man with an opinion.

    Thanks for the discussion, but it's become redundant and pointless.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    If I see the name 'Brannon Braga' associated with a new show in anyway, I'm out.
     
  3. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I do have to give Braga props, though, for coining the term "continuity porn." :)
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    The people who buy movie tickets and watch TV shows.
     
  5. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Cushman cherry picks his data and fundamentally misunderstands several things about the business of television to reach this conclusion. If it makes you feel better about being a Star Trek fan, more power to you, but that doesn't mean his conclusions about the ratings have a bit of merit.
     
  6. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I followed the pricing for various Star Wars collectibles following the prequels and didn't notice a significant increase but rather a decrease. That should qualify as an objective indicator, IMHO.

    Bob
     
  7. AtoZ

    AtoZ Commander Red Shirt

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    Curious. It saved the franchise as a whole? Reading your words drives home the point that TOS makes the studio money. THAT's why they got a brilliantine like JJ to helm THE Star Trek....the one that started it all.

    In turn it brought in fans in droves, made a fortune and while doing so brought us back into the original ballpark - the one devoid of jumpsuits, a single man at the main helm/navigation console, endless ready room monologues and smug deliveries meant to underline "higher society".

    For my money, the storytelling in TOS is of a richer, grander variety, without the sudden weak endings we became accustomed to in the late 80's and 90's. Sure, knock the ham-fisted approach Kirk and crew often seemed to have....but they didn't make my ears bleed or continuously resort to techno-babble to connect the dots. TOS was flawed in all of the right places. It was/is entertainment....and I dare submit it has held up better than those....all of those shows....that came after it.

    THAT's why the bean counters at the studio decided to use TOS. Because it was the superior vehicle...and the profit seekers knew it would draw in the money that the others could not.
     
  8. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Last night I watched "Requiem for Methuselah" and was somewhat intrigued by the scene where Spock sits at the piano playing a waltz from Brahms while Kirk and Rayna were dancing to it. It's a very beautiful scene and unlike most of what we had seen in previous TOS episodes.

    I then just wondered if such a scene were possible in one of the new movies. Apparently I lack the imagination to visualize that. :shrug:

    Bob
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Of course it's possible.
     
  10. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Okay, I rephrase that: How likely is such a scene? :rolleyes:

    Bob
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    The same as any other. It wasn't likely for TOS, until it was. ( As you pointed out)
     
  12. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    You're right, it isn't: the show wasn't popular. Cushman's "facts" are highly dubious.
     
  13. Dennis

    Dennis The Wind Premium Member

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    What I love about the "commercial success isn't the most important measure of a film's success" crowd is that they rarely have anything to offer as an alternative other than "my taste is better grounded than your taste" - and, especially among fans of skiffy movies, that's a non-starter where any detachment (much less chimerical "objectivity") is concerned.
     
  14. albion432

    albion432 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Really!? I've enjoyed his first two book greatly. If you care to enlighten me, I would be interested in hearing more about the dubiousness of his "facts". I have found a few questionable facts in those books as well . . .
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, it seems to really frustrate some people that they can't make other people like things by telling them a lot of other people liked that thing. It's almost like there could be some kind of fallacy inherent in their approach that they don't recognize.

    And of course there's no other yardstick to a measure a film by other than box office! That's why nobody ever heard of box office flops like The Big Lebowski, Blade Runner, The Shawshank Redemption or The Wizard of Oz. It all makes sense. (At least, though, we can take comfort in the cultural legacy of well-regarded and totally-remembered classics like The Golden Child, Congo and Eraser, which thanks to their box office success now form cultural touchstones for entire nations and religious traditions.)
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    There are entire threads on the subject.
     
  17. albion432

    albion432 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Oh, ok, thanks, I will look for it . . .
     
  18. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I think there is still a difference. TOS established that Spock had an interest in various forms of music (obviously including a piano) and we'd seen some protagonists dancing ("The Squire of Gothos"), so essentially TOS told us that some "classic" forms of entertainment will still be cherished in the 23rd (and 24th Century).

    Given the context of the new movies and since playing music or dancing don't exactly qualify as spectacle, I don't think we are going to see something like that in one of the upcoming movies.

    Bob
     
  19. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ I think the distinction between then and now is the mindset and experience brought to the writing and overall creative process. I agree it's a scene you could have seen in TNG, but highly unlikely to occur in something like JJtrek. Medium is significant, too. As long as Trek is done as feature film you will not likely get thoughtful, smaller scale stories as you would on television. The expectations of those footing the bill and the objectives of those producing are quite different.

    And it's gotten worse. Although I greatly dislike the JJ films their financial success pretty much guarantees that any successive film treatments will follow the same model of going for a splashy, action laden and dumbed down approach with a pervasive adolescent mindset rather than an adult one. This is why I firmly believe for Star Trek to ever regain any of its previous glory it has to get back to television where it has the freedom to tell the variety of stories it was meant for.
     
  20. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    OTOH, I don't recall one live musical interlude in Roddenberry's Star Trek: The Motion Picture, even though we did have an android woman.

    OTOH, can I picture such a scene in Lost or Person of Interest (television shows)? ABSOLUTELY.