A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oberyn doesn't really do much until The Duel so it isn't a big deal. I just hope they do the fight justice. The most intense chapter in the entire series. I nearly had a panic attack reading it, I was so damn excited :rommie:.

    I really like the show but I agree the invented subplots are infuriating. It wasn't really a problem in Season 1, hell the added Littlefinger and Varys scenes were fucking awesome. Come Season 2 and 3 though, we have seemingly endless invented scenes in King's Landing.

    I'm rewatching the show now and the showrunners have a serious boner for Margaery Tyrell. An incredibly minor character in Books 2 and 3, yet is given an abundance of new scenes for the show which add absolutely fucking nothing and go over the same material. Worse, it's at the expense of important stuff that could be done with Stannis, Jon and Arya's plots, which always suffer from being rushed. We saw Maester Cressen, one of the most tragic characters in all of ASOIAF, be demoted in to to being a faceless extra... in favour of excruciating padding regarding the fucking Tyrells.

    At this point it's clear to me the showrunners only really care about King's Landing. All the plots outside of it get fucked with and have scenes trimmed all the time, while King's Landing always gets added scenes.

    The show cut Arya and Jon warging in to their wolves, yet gave us Pod being the master of fucking whores, and dead-end subplots with Ros. A character that isn't even in A Song of Ice and Fire.

    Jaqen was awesomely cast, but the plot was kinda butchered. Having Arya order The Tickler killed in Season 2 was one of the more retarded changes the show has given us. Arya killing him in A Storm of Swords is one of her key character moments.

    This adaptation is so schizophrenic. There are times when the showrunners go to excessive, beyond the call of duty effort to maintain the spirit of the books. And then there are other times where they make me wonder if they've even read them. Not having Arya and Jon warg is just... what? Why the fuck would anybody ever cut that? Even the dumb mass audience that would never dream of touching a book, who purely tune in for the blood and tits, would rather see Jon and Arya warg in to direwolves than added scenes like uh... Loras shaving Renly? Loras going on about how hyped he is for his dream wedding? Excruciatingly long scenes of the Queen of Thorn mentioning farts? Margaery openly wearing her motivations on her sleave?

    Seriously, fuck the Tyrells and fuck the showrunners' obsession with them. That screentime should have been given to setting up the Boltons properly. None of my casual viewing friends had any idea who Roose Bolton was pre-Red Wedding. That is a huge fuck-up. But the showrunners don't give a flying fuck about setting up characters in the North, Iron Islands, Beyond the Wall, Dragonstone, or any other non-King's Landing area. If Roose Bolton lived in King's Landing, he'd likely have had 16 hours worth of screentime before the Red Wedding.

    Rant over, before I head on to how much they've raped the character of Mance Rayder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013
  2. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    I liked the Ros character and wished she stuck around. I thought it was good to see a prostitute's perspective which lessened some of the ickiness of the brothel scenes where it began to feel gratuitous.
     
  3. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She was a cynical excuse for more shots of tits, and nothing more. A staggering literary feat, reduced to Nuts magazine status. Thank you HBO.
     
  4. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think they spent more time developing the Tyrells because the Tyrells stick around more, and frankly they DO play a major part in the series. In the books they're mostly a bunch of Ciphers, and that wouldn't work for the show.

    They didn't do anything to "set up" the Boltons more because they wanted to keep it a surprise that they'd turn traitor. It's also why they changed Roose's appearance from the books which would've been like him wearing a "Yeah, I'm evil" sign on him.

    As for the lack of warging for Arya and Jon, we already saw warging in Jon's story it just wasn't from him so we know the concept (which is also being shown with Bran). Arya's warging will be saved for season 4 for when she uses Nymeria to do...you know what. It'll be more dramatic that way.

    And honestly, there wasn't THAT much time wasted on Ros or Podrick. Folks need to get over how there are some new characters.

    PS: I like how they made Cersei and Tywin more 3-Dimensional, compared to the 1-D caricatures they are in the books (which would've been a waste of Lena Headey and Charles Dance).
     
  5. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, but it hasn't been a recent thing, and now that Jaime is back she won't have any use for him. I can't see her picking up a plethora of lovers with him around and that is kind of a key issue in her plot. Jaime's reaction to it is almost irrelevant next to the importance of her thinking she has turned herself into a master of intrigue through the use of her vagina. Bringing him back early also is going to mean having to invent stuff for him to do for the first two-thirds of the season.
    My mistake, I barely remember him. I find it very unlikely that Cersei would have any interest in the TV version of Lancel, since his appeal is supposed to be in looking like a young Jaime and the timid little fella they cast bears no resemblance. I also can't see him replacing the Kettleblacks in the plot.
    I understand he isn't a major plot factor early on, but his presence gives his character credibility rather than appearing and dying within the span of a handful of episodes. He is going to have to hit the ground running to build up any sort of impact from his death.
    Agreed on all counts. Jon's warging isn't only important to the character but possibly also a key to his plot if it is how he avoids the imminent death we saw in ADWD.
     
  6. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I think Mellisandre will simply do a Red God reversal on Jon. No warging necessary.
     
  7. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I think they will only have Bran be able to warg on the show, while ignoring the rest of the ability from the other Stark children. It makes Bran far more special, without making the audience question why everyone can't do it.
     
  8. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The theory is that warging is what prevents Jon from losing parts of himself ala Stoneheart or Beric. His full consciousness is "saved" by hanging out in Ghost during the time he is dead.
     
  9. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    At this point, I think it might be too late to have the other Stark children warging into their wolves on the show without it seemly coming out of nowhere. We have at least been given hints of Bran's power in the first season.
     
  10. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    If they need John to warg then he'll warg. Audiences will be able to figure it out.
     
  11. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or Jon not being changed by the Red God revival will either be because Melisandre did it better, or because Jon's "special".
     
  12. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When last we saw Jon he was collapsed in the snow at Castle Black right? Opening the next season with a Wolf PoV and then turning it into a twist when it is Jon who wakes up instead of Bran might work. The suggestion being that it takes being near death to trigger the warging ability, which also works effectively as foreshadowing.
     
  13. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if you could say they've raped him given that they've hardly featured him. Which is odd, given that the chatter pre-season 3 was that they wanted a name actor, someone of the status of Sean Bean, for the role.

    IIRC, The Wire's Dominic West was pursued but turned it down as he didn't want to be away from his family. Hinds is another actor with clout but he's had a handful of scenes. I can only assume that they're going to make more use of him in the next few seasons.

    I'd say that there's a stronger argument that Tormund Giantsbane has been 'raped' as a character, though it seems to me that they've sort of merged him with the Magnar, even though the latter is apparently going to be in S4.
     
  14. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The amount of screen time Mance has is in line with his appearances in A Storm of Swords, which are memorable but pretty minimal. It feels like less because the show has let all the air out of the character, wasting Ciaran Hinds and leaving one to wonder how this Mance ever got to be king in a society that rejects most notions of authority. But of course what really mattered was endless scenes of Jon and Ygritte exchanging flirty banter, even though they had already erased his arc in A Clash of Kings to overload us on those. That's also the problem with playing up the Tyrells so much in season three: the producers are skipping stuff that can't be done later in order to create dragged-out versions of stuff that can. We're going to get two more years of Cersei and Margaery exchanging veiled threats before anything actually happens between them.
     
  15. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Unlikely they're going to have that, given time issues.
     
  16. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They'll have a whole season to have some minor scenes of Arya warging until that particular scene, which will likely be the finale of S4 (the end of Book 3).
     
  17. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    No, that really wouldn't work. The body was retrieved almost immediately after the wedding, before it could rot.
     
  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it was 3 days afterwards?
     
  19. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, not long after. If Arya was going to retrieve the body via warg, we'd have seen that in the finale.
     
  20. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmmm, that is a puzzler.
     

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