A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This thread is so damn refreshing :lol:. Love the show but sometimes I'm screaming at the TV. House of the Undying is one of the most crucial moments of the entire book series.

    Utterly pointless filler in the show.

    Without GRRM's atmospheric writing style, I find Dany's plot pretty dull.
     
  2. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    I disagree; I thought it had some fantastic imagery and I want to hold out until we see where things go before making a call on how much foreshadowing is in that scene (I'm guessing a lot).
     
  3. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's obviously not. It's firstly a rather blunt hint at the series' endgame - winter coats the country and the walkers come down (in itself, the same beat the show's hit since literally the pilot)... but more importantly, being able to leave the image of Drogo and being able to say goodbye to him has a certain amount of strength to it as a dramatic beat. The House of the Undying in the books isn't just a bunch of clues for people to obsess over, it's a surreal headscape where Dany has to keep her wits about her, and being able to move on from Drogo was part of that.
    Dany's plot was pretty weak in book two (frigging ages just screwing around in the desert) so it wasn't a lot for them to work with. It picks up again in book three, which is the best part of her arc, and the TV show has noticeably improved with it.
     
  4. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Keep straining, guys. ;) If you liked the scene, that's great (seriously), and of course what the writers did reflects the obvious narrative endgame of the series on a basic level. I didn't mean to suggest they had literally no intention to point toward the future. But there's nothing new there, in contrast to the sustained, meaningful headtrip from the books, and suggestions like "they're setting up Jon's parentage... in which the show has shown no interest" and "she has to move on from Drogo... which hasn't been a factor all season" don't pass the sniff test as serious dramatic structure. They took the general shape of the scene, and did something cheap, fan-pleasing, and abbreviated with it. Probably they told themselves bringing back Jason Momoa was about Daenerys' choice between past and future, but they didn't care enough about that to make it meaningful within the context of the season.

    Dany's arc in book two offers plenty to work with... if you're interested in making a fantasy series. Which, apart from sexy witches, magic zombies, and kewl dragons, Benioff and Weiss aren't. So they threw together something based on their own notions of fantasy storytelling, and it was weak. Even granting that the Qarth of the books would have been difficult to execute on screen (which I don't, though they might have had to divert some of that money they blew on making the Blackwater OMG MOVIE-STYLE EPIC), that's not the source material's fault.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  5. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I remember there being a mere one chapter in the desert? And that chapter included Jorah Mormont giving an account of his tragic backstory so it was actually a good, interesting chapter.
     
  6. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsideth...-downton-abbey-mad-men-bunheads-and-more.html

    I'm rooting for Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Peter Dinklage, and Michelle Fairley. Just being at least nominated would be an honor.

    Also LOL @ Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke being on the ballot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  7. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Charles Dance and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau have owned this season in the acting stakes.
     
  8. 3chordboy

    3chordboy Commander Red Shirt

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    indeed. CD is just the biggest badass on TV at the moment and I found myself shocked at how I ended up feeling sorry for the Jamie character as this season progressed. I ended up being disappointed when he didn't appear in an episode.
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Jaime's monologue about the truth behind the Mad King's death is my favourite scene from the whole show. Amazing acting.

    "By what right, does the wolf judge the lion?"
     
  10. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I could swear there's more. There's definitely a couple before she gets to Qarth (and her time in Qarth involves a lot of trying to get stuff done that goes nowhere.)

    It's one of the two stories in A Clash of Kings that is clearly suffering from Martin's desire to expand the length of the novel series. The other one is Arya's.
    She's never had the choice. She could stay with Drogo in that tent, in a place of peace, and not have to worry about all the crazy shit she's endured - this is the first time the series really gives her that out. But she doesn't, and Drogo respects her for it.
    This feels as much a criticism as Martin as it does D&D, since he uses generic fantasy set dressing and has it lurk at the edges of his historical fiction imitation until he needs to call it up for a scene or two, and when he does it's a dragon or a giant or a zombie or something else typically not that unusual for the genre.
     
  11. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think Arya has the best chapters in that book, loved all of them. Only Dany's chapters felt kinda unnecessary but she only had a few so it didn't bother me much.
     
  12. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Arya's chapters in ACOK were important because it introduced Jaqen H'ghar and Faceless Men.
     
  13. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^
    Important, sure, but Arya's chapters also had plenty of traveloguing in that book, where it was her and her friends faffing around from location A to location B. As a rule travelogues are the weakest kind of chapter in ASOIAF.
     
  14. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pedro Pascal has been cast as the Red Viper, who will be making his debut in season four.
     
  15. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Arya's Clash chapters are great. The show did not translate them very well though.
     
  16. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Looks about right. Sad that Oberyn will be a one-season wonder though. Probably only see him in 3 or 4 episodes and his death won't have nearly the impact as if he were around this season.

    That is going to be an increasing problem as the series continues. Unless you start introducing these characters and giving them proper development early on, the deaths are just going to start seeming routine. "Oh, look at the guest star this season who will obviously die in episode 9"
     
  17. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    It's one of the disadvantages of the show, not being able to go in depth like the books, but I like the Season 4 will be having its own flavor with the new characters from Dorne. The Oberyn vs the Mountain fight should be epic.
     
  18. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In depth would be nice, but what I'm talking about is laying groundwork. Cersei hasn't been fucking around, so that plot is going to have to start next season too and somehow make sense with Jaime already home, Lancel hasn't been around since the first season so he gets thrown out. We haven't met the Kettleblacks nor really seen much of Littlefinger or his intricate plots. Pretty much the whole next season is going to have to be just the goings-on in Kings Landing (and the various plots of the characters who call it home) to do any of it justice and get anywhere near the point of pushing into the AFFC material, and we haven't even met most of the Ironborn cast yet.

    This is why wasting screen time on torture scenes and invented subplots is so frustrating. The writers seem to want to leave a mark on the story by adding to it when they should instead be focusing on adapting as prudently, efficiently and effectively as possible.
     
  19. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She's been fucking Lancel since season one. That alone should be enough for Jaime.
     
  20. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    He appeared 3-4 times in season 2.