A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You say that based on how great their original storylines have been on the show so far I assume? Dany's plot in season 2 was a nearly complete waste of time and Talisa was just a quick way of giving Robb a wife so they could skip actually having to give him a plot.
     
  2. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quentyn's story isn't pointless in the books, and it's not even one of the prime offenders in being overlong for its narrative relevance (hello twelve chapters of Tyrion getting kicked around the map of Essos), but it's something they might well want to remove for the show. On the other hand, it's about a twenty-something male, and Benioff and Weiss seem to think those are the most important characters in the story, so who knows?

    My only worry about the show's approach to Feast and Dance is that it might try to spruce up storylines rather than compress them, as with Daenerys in season 2. That wasn't pretty.
     
  3. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, but also how they've handled the existing stories. One of the great benefits of Game of Thrones as a TV series is it never feels the need to spend ages explaining what people are wearing or what they're eating, or focus on the vagaries of their traveling itinerary. For most of the narrative it's cut right to the meat of the subject - and there is perhaps an interesting story for Jon and Dany - and maybe even Tyrion, though that's doubtful - lost somewhere beneath the tome of words.
     
  4. Shurik

    Shurik Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Still better than whatever Brienne, Sam, every Dornish POV, Tyrion, Dany, Quentyn and everyone in Essos did in AFFC and ADWD. I'd rather have them invent another Talisa than keep any of those plotlines on the show.
     
  5. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  6. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quentyn was frustrating, no doubt, because while he certainly had an impact on the plot it didn't feel like one that was worth POVing. I don't get the hate for most of the last couple books though other than the overlong travelogue of a couple characters. Any time spent with Tyrion is time well spent as far as I'm concerned.
     
  7. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Where do whores go?

    God, the pacing of the Tyrion stuff was just fucking atrocious. It's not going to get a lot better in the TV series - look at how slowly Theon's non-plot evolves this year and you can get an idea of how difficult it'll be to make Tyrion interesting. I guess their best hope is to put more focus on his chance encounter with Griff and maybe have him actually reach Dany at the end of it, assuming Martin ever intends that meeting to happen.

    Really though the issues with the last two books are the problems with Martin's preferred method of writing the series becoming more transparent. He's very wedded to the idea of focusing in just set POVs, which is why we know more about Tyrion's languorous journey faffing about Essos than we do what the Tyrells are actually up to. One of the benefits of the show is it's never been as wholly wedded to this idea.
     
  8. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the last 2 books have been excellent. Not quite as good as the first 3, but still very impressive novels that set the standard for fantasy fiction.

    I think the show suffers for being a streamlined portrayal of only the key events (Plus pointless nudity and sex scenes of course!). I like the novels for the smaller details that often don't make the cut for the show.
     
  9. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Dornish plot in AFfC is one of my favorites. The idea of Doran being the brains of the plots while Oberyn is the face, the shifting plans to ally with first Viserys, then Dany, then finally Young Griff, the haphazard plot to crown Myrcella... there is a lot of stuff happening there.

    "Vengeance. Justice. Fire and blood."
     
  10. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    and DAAAAARKSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAR! HE IS OF THE NIGHT!
     
  11. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Darkstar was pretty over the top. I bet he looks good on TV though.
     
  12. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    Considering the popularity of Tyrion/Peter Dinklage I think the chances of any Tyrion stuff being cut is slim and none. Maybe reworked, but there's no way they're going to have him not show up for half a season.
     
  13. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They're not likely to cut plot points concerning Tyrion, or any other major character. But if, as seems probable, Feast and Dance are combined into a single season, almost everything will move faster than it does in the books, which will generally be a boon.
     
  14. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They'll be combined, but not into one season. Between the rest of Storm, Feast and Dance, there is easily 20 episodes worth of material and a bit more to spare. The current plan at HBO is 8 seasons. If book 6 comes out before they start scripting season 5 (and is more like books 1-3 as far as plot density), that gives them a bit more freedom to cut out material from Feast and Dance.
     
  15. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've read the current plan is seven seasons. I'd expect to see a fair bit of AFFC and ADWD next year (in a sense, we have a ADWD plot already with Theon).

    FreezeC77 - I think we can take it as a given Dinklage will appear in most episodes of a season, he's actually only not appeared in two episodes of the show's entire run.

    But they should have his plot move more briskly or feel more relevant - more focus on the Griff stuff, ignore a lot of the boat journey, that kind of thing.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe they will give Dinklage a few episodes off and allow Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington the chance to be leads. Dany's being forever stuck in the east is as interesting as it sounds, but at least Jon gets the chance to shine. However, those two actors really need to step up.
     
  17. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Right, that's what I meant-- big chunks of Feast in particular take place during the end of Storm anyway and will probably appear in season 4, and they may end season 5 at the point in Dance where the two narrative streams unite and leave the later developments in the Meereen, Braavos, and southern Westeros stories until season 6.

    There's no firm plan for the length of the show's run; at different times different producers have mentioned 7, 8, and 9 as possibilities. Obviously a lot is going to depend on the point at which they have to go it alone based on the general information Martin has given them.

    The Winds of Winter certainly isn't going to come out before they start scripting season five. Six scripts for season four were already written by March of this year, so they're going to be scripting season five by the beginning of 2014. Based on the tone of Martin's responses to questions about the next book, he's not going to be done by then.
     
  18. Spocktapus

    Spocktapus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I doubt that we're going to get anything major in episode ten. As for season four, I've been thinking a bit about what we'll probably see. I think we'll certainly see the rest of the ASOS material, as well some of AFFC, and probably ADWD.

    I expect that if we are going to see the Iron Islands storylines, we'll get a lot of that in season four, as Balon is supposed to die around the same time as Robb and Joffrey. I doubt that Dorne will appear at all, unless the trial happens much earlier in the season than I would expect. I could see them ending things in King's Landing with the aftermath of Tywin's death and Tyrion's escape. I could see Tyrion and Arya both arriving in the Free Cities by the end of the season.
     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I think Balon will die off-screen between episodes nine and ten, and most of Ash--*sigh*--Yara's storyline in episode ten will revolve around her reaction to that and the announcement of the kingsmoot, which will take place next season.

    And I'm probably wrong.
     
  20. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Benioff and Weiss have consistently said their goal is 80 episodes in eight seasons. One of the other producers, Frank Doelger, said seven seasons in a recent interview.

    I think the end of the fourth season is going to be the big decision point. If they determine that Martin is too far behind in his writing for the show's purposes and that the audience is going to lose patience they may veer off and wrap things up more quickly.
     

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