A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Kosh Naranek

    Kosh Naranek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Location:
    Elwood P. Dowd's House
    Let the Ramsay Snow mind games begin. I got chills when he was called "little bastard" right before that arrow thrummed. I never particularly liked Theon in the books, but what Ramsay does to him and others is revolting.

    For me, Ramsay is a character that is so beyond the pale that Martin cannot kill him horribly enough. Poor Jeyne Poole's plight (that sounds too sanitized a word) turned my stomach.

    The scenes between Jaime and Brienne were marvelously played.

    I found the scene in the council chamber to be hilarous, but was not very amused by the Pod scenes. I feel like Bronn is being shown just to keep Jerome Flynn around.

    The scenes between Dany, Missendei and the slavers were suitably funny and distressing. They are doing a good job of setting up the Mormont vs. Selmy rivalry.

    I keep feeling like the scenes North of the Wall are getting a short shrift. Perhaps that is because I found that storyline the most compelling in the books?

    The Blackfish is perfectly cast, and I love the Brotherhood.
     
  2. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    Did Theon not escape with Jayne?

    I always wondered why everyone says Joff is the nastiest little shit in GoT when Ramsay is clearly worse.
     
  3. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    He does, but that's way later from where the show is now.

    Well, timing mostly.

    Joffrey appears right out of the gate and shortly after, we see what a little prick he is. He murderers the lead POV character, abuses another POV character, and continues to act like an incredibly entitled shit doing vicious things. He's easy and visible right from the start as the guy you can 100% hate and throw your darts at in this world of moral ambiguity.

    Ramsay is much more of a long game. He first appeared in A Clash of Kings, but he's mostly Reek until the end. He didn't get introduced as the most sadistic motherfucker in Westeros until 2011 and most of his terrible things come to a POV character that we last saw murdering children. It's a real testament to his viciousness then that almost everyone actually gained sympathy for Theon, despite his past actions, just because of how bad Ramsay was. If he had been in AGoT and done this to a Stark? He'd be more hated than Joffrey.

    BTW did anyone else appreciate the nod in the ep to the "Meereenese Knot" that gave GRRM so much trouble pre-ADwD?
     
  4. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    Who is John Galt?
    They seem to be really toning down the Theon torture scenes. I gather that much of this is happening as a build up to the main "Reek" on-page material, but so far, there hasn't been any flaying, removal of appendages or other nasty psy-ops stuff that Ramsay was infamous for. I told my wife that the audience will soon start to take some element of pity on him, and based on what she's seen so far, her response has generally been *shrug* "Meh...he deserves it". From the non-book POV, I agree - the punishment has not yet exceeded the crime. I really hope they don't puss out on this one.
     
  5. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    I never felt sorry for Theon. After he killed and flayed those children I thought "fuck him, I hope he gets his". And so he did. Of course now we all want Ramsay to get worse, which probably means someone will shoot him the the eye with an arrow and that will be all she wrote.
     
  6. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    The way I see it, Theon has at least 3 seasons of torture with Ramsay before he escapes. I'm sure they'll get to the more gruesome aspects of his torture in time.
     
  7. Kosh Naranek

    Kosh Naranek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Location:
    Elwood P. Dowd's House
    I like the way they are playing it in the show. They are showing Ramsay the way that Theon first got to know him - helpful little Toady. Then, Ramsay becomes Theon's worst nightmare.

    What Ramsay did to Jayne and those other women he hunts really disgusted me. Poor Jayne was already bearing the marks from being beaten in Littlefinger's brothels. Then she is bitten by Ramsay (all over her body it seems), forced to have sex with dogs and who knows what else.

    Ramsay for me is by far the most revolting character, except for maybe Qyburn. I hate them both, and I hate Roose and Cersei for allowing Ramsay and Qyburn their activities.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    So, does anyone know why Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers have been replaced with Locke and his fellow Bolton bannermen? Was it so that non-readers wouldn't confuse the Brave Companions with the Brotherhood Without Banners, or to play up the darker aspects of the Boltons leading up to the Red Wedding? Or maybe both?
     
  9. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Location:
    Maine
    I imagine that an over-the-top type like Hoat was simply too much for the producers, who prefer to water down some of the more eccentric, exaggerated, or downright crazy characters for fear they won't translate well. Rather than present a bland version of Hoat, they must have decided to replace him, and like you say this allows them to emphasize the Boltons more.
     
  10. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Location:
    Yorkshire

    Clearly both - We've seen them change names before, and they'll be wanting to make sure that the audience are conditioned to feel - even if not quite consciously - that the Boltons are this season's bads.
     
  11. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    I really got mad at him when he yelled "No, not me!". So it's ok to rape someone else then?
    Made me realize what a blessing in disguise Ramsay actually is for Theon, because he really needs to be broken apart at the seems so he can put himself back together again as a better person. As he is now, he's irredeemable.
     
  12. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    Who is John Galt?
    Good point. I hope they are setting up the situation in which Theon's redemption can be clearly established. I recall it being a little more wishy-washy in the books.
     
  13. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Well, why don't people feel worse towards what Jaime did to Bran? His was potentially worse, because he did what he did towards someone we knew and cared about.

    I know the usual excuse is "He did it out of love for Cersei", but really it's still his own fault for doing something wrong in the first place.
     
  14. Klaus

    Klaus Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Location:
    Beach condo, Bay of Eldamar
    What Jaime did to Bran is a neat parallel to what was done to him in turn... Bran was all about climbing and agility before the fall, and Jaime took that away from him -- and then Jaime lost all that defined him along with his sword hand. A deserving fate.
     
  15. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    Jaime's been a rotter from the start. I expect him to remain a rotter throughout. However what he did to Bran was supposed to kill him instantly. It wasn't Jaime's intention to cripple the boy. For all his faults he isn't a sadist like Theon or Ramsay.
     
  16. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Theon's not a sadist either though. I can't remember him ever taking any pleasure from killing anyone.

    I think the TV version of Theon is loads more sympathetic than the book version though.
     
  17. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Wherever you go, there you are.
    Jaime is the Spike of Game of Thrones.
     
  18. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Then Brienne is the Twilight?
     
  19. Kosh Naranek

    Kosh Naranek Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Location:
    Elwood P. Dowd's House
    While I confess I sometimes found Jaime amusing and his chapters compelling, I never "liked" him. He flung a small boy to his death, or at least he hoped to.

    I cannot condemn Theon for the Miller's boys and not condemn Jaime for Bran. I think they are both paying for their crimes, but that does not make me like them.

    I have had compassion for the women in their stories - Brienne and Jeyne.

    Killing children and hunting people with dogs puts you past the pale. I am looking at you Cersei, Jaime, Theon, the Hound and Ramsay. (I have probably forgotten a few.)

    Qyburn and his Mengele-like experiments also turn my stomach.

    When you get right down to it, most of the characters have done something I find objectionable, but Ramsay is the one I find most vile.
     
  20. Tyberius

    Tyberius Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Location:
    Twenty million die by fire if I am weak.
    I was wondering where the dragonglass knife went. There's no other nightswatch around so no witnesses. Maybe Sam will lose a nickname?

    I thought this one went a little slow. Liked the Queen of Thorns against Tywin though. Wished they had the skinchanging fight with sixskins before, but at least they're developing some bad blood with him.

    I was expecting a Tyrion wedding this episode. I guess they'll be packing a lot into the last couple? Though with the Tyrion wedding, it is just a lot of inner monologue, so they can do that with a single good scene.
     

Share This Page