A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They were very good, not least of all because of the excellence of Charles Dance and Maisy Williams. But the scenes in the book between Arya and Roose Bolton might have been just as good had they been left there.
     
  2. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    I understand why they had Roose Bolton be Robb's number two man in the season though (especially since the Greatjon actor left), to set him up as an adviser and ally, making "Jaime Lannister sends his regards"* all the more shocking. Of all my Season 2 complaints (and I have many), streamlining the story so Tywin met Arya at Harrenhal isn't one of them, even if it does go on for an episode too long (making Tywin leave Harrenhal at the same time Stannis is already on the sea to Blackwater Bay; by that time frame, Tywin arrived for the Battle of Blackwater in a RIDICULOUSLY short amount of time).

    * I've listened to a couple audio book renditions of the Red Wedding and for some reason, NONE of the readers do "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" in the whispery voice of Bolton but instead shout it, even though the figure is wearing a pink cloak and Roose was actually told by Jaime Lannister to send his regards.
     
  3. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I did notice that the Tywin/Arya "my lord" vs "m'lord" scene was actually lifted from a later scene in the books. I think it was
    either Littlefinger schooling Sansa how to act and sound low-born while posing as Alayne Stone, or the old man teaching Arya after she arrives at the House of Black & White. Can't remember which.
     
  4. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Neither, actually; it's Roose Bolton warning Theon in A Dance with Dragons. Ironically, Arya calls him "my lord" when she's his cupbearer in A Clash of Kings, and he doesn't notice.

    On another topic, Martin announced today that the cross-genre anthology Dangerous Women has been completed. His contribution is not, as was expected, the fourth Dunk and Egg story, but "The Princess and the Queen," "fake history" about the origins of the Dance of the Dragons, the Targaryen civil war. This is presumably either a preview of The World of Ice and Fire or a deleted sequence from it.
     
  5. Eduardo

    Eduardo Commander Red Shirt

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    So, GRRM posted today in the blog that the upcoming anthology, Dangerous Women, will have (instead of a 4th Dunk & Egg story), a piece called The Princess and the Queen, which is:

    http://grrm.livejournal.com/310198.html
     
  6. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Is it definitely Bolton? I mean, the murder is seen from Catelyn's POV and she would know Bolton, but doesn't describe the murderer as him. Could the 'Jamie Lannister...' bit not just be something Bolton instructed one of his men to say to Rob, or could the man not just have overheard Jamie telling Bolton to send his regards to Stark, when they parted ways at Harrenhall?
     
  7. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I take it you're talking about something that happened in the TV series. It sounds less and less appealing TBH.
     
  8. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Me? No, I mean The Red Wedding from the third book.
     
  9. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The murderer is in armor, so Catelyn couldn't recognize him. But he's wearing a pink cloak, which is the Bolton color, and Roose had excused himself just before the fighting broke out, giving him time to put said armor on. It could be someone else, but I imagine Roose would have wanted to do the deed in person.
     
  10. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    IMO it's as close as possible without explicitly saying it. Roose Bolton gets up and leaves before the massacre begins and then at the very end, a man in a pink cloak stabs Robb and says "Jaime Lanniser..." Now yes, because of the POV structure, it's not explicitly stated "And then Roose Bolton appeared!" but given everything that happened before and after, I think it's fairly reasonable to say Roose Bolton personally killed Robb Stark.

    And yes, Deckerd, as Captaindemotion said, we're discussing the scene from the book, not the TV series. The TV series won't be on the Red Wedding til later this year.
     
  11. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I always assumed that Roose just got up because he knew the shit was about to hit the fan and he didn't want to get pierced by a stray arrow.

    I take your point, Martin doesn't always spell things out the way some writers do and you're far from the first person I've seen saying that he personally killed Robb. I just would have expected some reference to Cat knowing his voice or recognising him in some other way to ensure that the reader knew that it was him and not just one of his men who did the deed itself.

    Either way, of course, he's complicit as hell in the whole thing and is as guilty as the man who thrust the blade (assuming it's not him).
     
  12. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think he wanted to ensure the reader knew, any more than he wanted to ensure the reader knew that the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle was Sandor Clegane, or that the Citadel novice Alleras was one of the Sand Snakes. They're Easter eggs for observant fans, to be made explicit when (if) necessary.
     
  13. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It'll become explicit in the TV series, because it's way harder to hide that stuff in the visual medium. We'll recognize Bolton's voice, and if the Gravedigger speaks we'll recognize HIS voice, etc.
     
  14. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In some cases they could still get away with it-- Michael McElhatton can disguise his voice for one line if they really care. But in others I doubt they'll even bother. The "Arstan Whitebeard" thing, for example.
     
  15. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Is Ian McElhenny (Ser Barristan) back for the next series then? I know that Strong Belwas has been cast, but I wasn't sure about him.
     
  16. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, his return was confirmed a few months back by WinterIsComing.net.
     
  17. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Excellent! Thanks.
     
  18. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Strong Belwas hasn't been cast for season three.
     
  19. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    It's a shame Michael Clarke Duncan died last year. I think he would have been perfect for that role. :(
     
  20. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought he had. Maybe I'm thinking of Grey Worm?