A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thing is, all the "Loyal Service" stuff we hear about comes from Stannis or his most loyal men (Cressen, mainly). I'm starting to think that he may not have been all that great to Robert in the first place, I mean for people who blame Robert for Stannis' personality it's stated in the prologue to ACOK that he was a humorless stiff person even as a boy.

    I have to wonder just why Robert had such a rough relationship with Stannis, given how similar he and Ned are in personality.
     
  2. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He was raised with Ned. Stannis and Robert never really built those familial bonds.
     
  3. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Stannis is stiff and humourless by nature, from what we've seen, but nobody has ever disputed that he served Robert with great distinction in the wars (to, again, the point of breaking his own dearly-held belief in the law to join his rebellion) - he held Storm's End to the point of starvation (without which the rebellion would have been crushed due to force concentration), and annihilated the Iron Fleet, which essentially ended the first Greyjoy uprising. And then he and Jon Arryn were pretty much the only people on Robert's council actually trying to keep the realm on good footing, whilst Robert ignored the government, spent it into debt, and tolerated the corruption of other ministers. Stannis' complaints against Robert seem fairly well-founded, in comparison (even Cersei confirmed that giving Stannis Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End was intended by Robert as an insult).
     
  4. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We can't take anything Cersei says as truth though, she'd see slights where there were none.

    Robert probably was trying to be nice to Stannis by giving him the Home of the Royal Heir, but he should've made him Lord Paramount of the Stormlands at the same time.

    I think it's because neither Robert nor Stannis are able to mentally develop beyond teenage years, Robert probably gave Storm's End to Renly because Renly was a child and Robert could keep the Stormlands through Renly. He childishly wanted to keep his birthright and his new Throne, but still felt Stannis deserved something. So he was trying to be nice but cocked it up.

    Even that mess with Stannis' marriage bed could be explained: Robert saw for himself how disgusted Stannis was with his wife, he felt lousy for forcing him to marry someone like that (after all, he had a beautiful unpleasant person forced on him and Stannis doesn't even get the luxury of Selyse being pretty), got drunk and figured "Hell, Stannis won't enjoy himself in that bed anyways so why not?"

    Yeah, but they're similar enough you'd think he'd notice THAT.
     
  5. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Not by herself, but Cersei wasn't the only one who took it that way; that was how pretty much everybody interpreted it, including Stannis himself.

    This isn't really disputed by anyone. Robert blamed Stannis for the Targaryens escaping Dragonstone, even though they had left the island long before Stannis' fleet could have been ready to sail.
     
  6. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that was bad. But I can't really believe their relationship is as simple as it seems for this series. It's more complex and multi-layered with a history between both brothers, not just Robert being a jerk to Stannis.
     
  7. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not exactly. I recall the problem was that Renly was still basically a child when the war ended, and with Dragonstone's previous lords obviously vacant, Robert needed someone to manage that estate - someone he could trust. Stannis was needed there - the right man for the right job - but a consequence of giving him that title was letting Renly have the more lucrative and prestigious Storm's End. It could be Robert's attitude towards Stannis insisting on Storm's End got more sour later, but the initial posting was not an insult.
     
  8. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    I don't recall that at all. Dragonstone is a tiny estate with few resources and, historical significance to the Targaryens notwithstanding, of no real importance. Beyond which Stannis, concurrently the Master of Ships, was rarely there anyway, his duties being in the capital city, so he wasn't really managing it day-to-day.
     
  9. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was pretty sure Robert didn't intend it as a slight so I went to see if I could find a source. This'll do (sort of):

    http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Baratheon_Brothers/
    Key bit here:

     
  10. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, I won't contradict the author then.;)

    Reinforces Robert's poor management skills, though.
     
  11. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also, Dragonstone was home to the most loyal of the Targ Loyalists IIRC. Someone trustworthy had to go there to make sure they weren't planning something.
     
  12. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Not really. The Targaryens fled in secret because the castellan and co. were debating turning them over to Robert. And the Island is barely inhabited, anyway - just change the castle garrison.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Robert and Aerys the Mad were the worst things to happen to Westeros. Sure, Rhaegar didn't exactly help matters by running off with Lyanna like he did, but from the sound of it, Rhaegar would have been a hundred times the king that Robert turned out to be.
     
  14. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe Captain Captain

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    Jace lacob has impressions of the first 3 episodes!

    @televisionary: The first two episodes of S2 #GameofThrones are very, very strong indeed. Some spellbinding, heart-pounding stuff. I've missed this world.

    Episode 3:

    Another fantastic episode of #GameOfThrones, written by @BryanCogman. Brutal, beautiful, and glittering in its malice. Loved. Saving 204…



    Ken tucker review:

    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20470532_20580368,00.html
     
  15. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Stanis's problem is that he isn't using enough black magic. Aegon had his dragons and he used this for shock and awe.l He rode in like a pimp, incinerated his enemies, and made everyone bow down before him. And that's what Stanis should have been emulating.

    Mel gives Stanis a decisive advantage that he should have flaunted from the very beginning instead of trying to keep it a secret. When he decides that he wants Mel to stay away from that assault of King's Landing because he doesn't want to be accused of winning the throne via black magic, he's making an incredibly stupid error. If I were in his position I'd want everyone to know that I won the throne via black magic. People do not fuck with sorcerer-kings.

    And once the war is over Stanis would have plenty of time to get Mel to teach him her tricks, become a Lich, and rule Westeros forever.
     
  16. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mel's black magic is powered from Stannis' own life energy though, if she kept using it she would've killed him eventually.
     
  17. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's one of the reasons why becoming an immortal undead monster should be part of the long-term plan.
     
  18. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep. House Velaryon is one example.
     
  19. Hyperspace05

    Hyperspace05 Commodore Commodore

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  20. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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