A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The books so far will most likely be adapted by the end of season 5 with only bits and pieces missing from A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons (and some parts of Winds of Winter will already be used in season 5!), there's not much content left, large chunks and some characters from Feast/Dance will be removed, they're pointless and add nothing to the story.

    The producers know where the story is going, they don't have to make things up, Martin told them the story of every character in broad strokes, they will simply overtake the novels.
     
  2. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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  3. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think they've said it's impossible. Do you have a quote? It wasn't impossible for Oz, The Sopranos, BSG on the SciFi channel, I don't see why it would be impossible for GoT.

    Why would you wonder that? Of course it will. The question is just if we'll get the chance to see the ending on TV first or read it in the books.



    That's ridiculous. They can't and won't recast any of the major characters. They've only recast minor and supporting characters.

    Dinklage's performance is overrated, BTW. A bunch of other actors have delivered as good or better performances (i.e. without his ridiculous accent).

    :rommie: Nope. They care about having a good ending, and they claim to care about adapting the series faithfully - and so far, they've mostly done it. Why would they be worried if the show spoils future books? That can only be good for the show's viewership.

    GRRM has told them the ending and the character arcs for all major characters. They will work with that. I'm sure they will also have the access to GRRM's yet unpublished manuscripts, because he'd probably prefer a faithful adaptation to one that diverges from the books a lot.
     
  4. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Game of Thrones is a much bigger and more difficult production than any of those shows. This is from an interview Maureen Ryan conducted with the producers after the third season renewal:

    The producers had spoken of a maximum aim of 80 episodes in eight seasons. If they wrap it up in seven seasons instead then you could perhaps see a slightly longer final season, if the air date is pushed back, or - perhaps more likely - a 10-episode final season with extra-long opening and closing episodes.

    For a guy with TV experience, his plan for staying ahead of the TV show is very unrealistic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  5. Klaus

    Klaus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ...if it indeed works out that the show finishes first, we could have an utterly unique situation where the TV adaptation spoils the books rather than the other way around. That's never happened before AFAIK. Hard-core book fans might try to not watch the last season or two and wait until they can read the books first.
     
  6. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    That's why I think they'll have different but related endings. So that both are satisfying and fit together, but neither spoils the other.
     
  7. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    They specifically went to Martin to get all the details on how the series finishes, so I don't think they're planning on changing things. They signed on to adapt A Song of Ice and Fire, and that's what they'll do.
     
  8. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since Benioff and Weiss gone from talking about eight seasons to talking about seven, it's clear they're making adjustments to wrap up earlier than they had initially planned.

    Based on history, I think it's likely that the final war for the Iron Throne would be the easiest to truncate. In some respects, Bosworth Field at the end of the Wars of the Roses is anticlimactic, but it's also definitive. Martin may elaborate on and draw out the final phase of the Westerosi civil war in the book; the series could simply cut to the chase -- the Targaryen heir (Dany? Young Griff?) lands in Westeros and raises the standard, whoever holds the throne summons what army he can and rushes out to meet them, his army begins to defect to the other side, battle, done. Take care of that in the sixth season and show the new monarch consolidating power and dealing with the aftermath of the war, and then use the seventh and final season for the final war with what lies beyond the Wall. (That's how I think books six and seven will play out -- book six, the fate of the Iron Thrones; book seven, the fate of Westeros between the Westerosi and what lies beyond.)
     
  9. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The game of thrones is never over. Wrapping it all up neatly would be the worst possible ending. I don't see how you wrap up the struggle for the throne before the threat of the others is dealt with.
     
  10. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's so ... generic.
     
  11. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    But you kinda HAVE to resolve the internal conflict in order to team up on the bigger Others issue, no? Guess you could have them unite out of necessity, and then go right back to fighting with whoever is left, but not sure that works any better...
     
  12. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which is the main story -- Who sits on the Iron Throne, or what lurks beyond the Wall? Are the Others a side-story to the Iron Throne, or is the Iron Throne a side-story to the Others? I'm of the opinion that the Iron Throne is just a sideshow to the main event -- Ice (the White Walkers) versus Fire (Dragons) -- so therefore the Iron Throne has to be wrapped up first and in such a way that it both feels like closure and an "Oh, shit!" moment as characters realize there's a much bigger threat on the horizon.

    Yes, Kelthaz, that does sound "so ... generic," but that's also basic narrative structure -- a situation is overcome, revealing a new plot complication. It may seem like there's a lot going on in Game of Thrones -- it's dense, there's a fuckton of characters -- but much of it is misdirection and obfuscation, and it's not going to matter in the end. My thoughts on what seasons six and seven will probably look like isn't any more generic than what we've had thus far or anything Martin's written.
     
  13. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see the Others storyline as one that's ever going to involve all the characters directly. This doesn't feel like a series that's building to an epic confrontation with humanity unified against a monstrous onslaught. In fact, the relevant prophecies and visions suggest it's individual players (Jon, Dany, perhaps Tyrion and Bran) that are important rather than rallying the troops. Probably the threat will manifest in some way that makes all the characters aware of it, creating a sense of finality and moment without requiring Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Jaime, and other characters with no evident connection to that storyline to be shoehorned in.

    "The main story" is the chaos that spreads across Westeros during the timeframe of the series, its effect on the central characters, and what that reveals about human nature as constrained by medieval values and resources. It's not so tightly bound by the unity of action that we have to pick a particular narrative strand as the main one.
     
  14. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly.

    Wrapping up the complex civil war in Westeros just in time for humanity to stand united against the big bad final boss in an epic war is so boring. My expectations for a Dream of Spring go a bit higher than a WarHammer book.
     
  15. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's an interesting viewpoint, but it reduces Martin's work to the level of a Harry Turtledove series. :)
     
  16. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    I enjoy the entertainment of Martin's work immensely, but I would not say it is especially "greater" than anything else. That will show itself in time, but not now.
     
  17. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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  18. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, it's the idea that the series should boil down to a main story that's reductive. Life doesn't conform to "basic narrative structure;" in any context from individuals to nations, the conflicting interests of various players are colliding in disorganized ways all the time. Obviously a certain amount of contrivance is required to create a satisfying narrative around such disorder, but a strict hierarchy between a main story and subplots has more to do with heavy-handed authorial fiat than with useful observations about human behavior. Especially if the main story in question is stock fantasy boilerplate about plucky humanity and the malicious non-human creatures. My biggest worry about the endgame of the series is that the Others storyline is going to dump the things that make the series interesting (as epic fantasy goes; obviously this is entertainment with some literary elements, not literature) in favor of "Oh, how blind we were to participate in human drama, let's gather the mystical swords and slay the ice monsters."
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  19. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Of course, that's been the deal with this series from the beginning. GCCM wandered a bit with the story when he stretched it out, but at heart, it's idiots in the south playing their nonsense games while the real threat looms ignored. Once they've beaten themsevles up sufficiently, they'll figure out that the game of thrones was petty nonsense, and should band together to deal with the undead walkers headed their way instead.

    Been that way since the opening chapter of the series, and not sure how else you can end it. Pretty much down to whether they formally end the King's landing stuff before the Walker war, or if they just all drop it, fight together, and go back to squabbling amongst whomever is still alive after.

    Any other way to see this all ending? that's been the endgame from the beginning. Some flavor of Jon and Dany against the white walkers. Not much else has mattered
     
  20. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The war with the Others doesn't come. They're stopped by Bran and The Night's Watch before they can breach the wall.
     

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