A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Out Of My Vulcan Mind, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That would have been my serious guess. He has a similar look, though I rather liked what the previous dude had done with his few moments. He had the right swagger, even if he didn't have much material to work with. I could see Dany allowing herself to fall for him.
     
  2. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    On the basis of his performance in Treme, I'd say the new guy is a better actor than the previous one. His character there was kind of an asshole but with redeeming features. He was a bit of a cliche, but he did his best to round it out.
     
  3. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The old guy seemed plenty suited to the role and I just generally abhor recasting. I hope they had a better reason than "oh, but this guy is better."
     
  4. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd rather have him in a full fourth season of Treme, but given HBO has basically pulled the plug on the show that was never going to happen, so I'm okay with him being Naharis (even if it's a bit of a demotion for him as it's a far more minor role than Sonny on Treme).
     
  5. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Hugo Awards were given out tonight. Game of Thrones won in Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form, with "Blackwater" beating out three episodes of Doctor Who, which had won the category in six of the previous seven years, and an episode of Fringe. George R. R. Martin and Rory McCann accepted the award.
     
  6. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Blackwater?? That was two seasons ago...
     
  7. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Hugos took nominations months ago for the previous year.
     
  8. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Doctor Who won six times? No wonder I don't pay attention to the Hugo awards anymore. Used to be it was a big deal (and been watching Fringe, it's not bad.)
     
  9. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    What Sci Fi shows have been popular these last few years? Doctor Who pretty much has had zero competition.
     
  10. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's not true. I even just mentioned one by name, which only concluded this year. Go back a couple of years and you have Battlestar Galactica and (since we're defining contenders broadly enough to include Game of Thrones) Lost. And then there's various other programs that have achieved a degree of critical praise - Dollhouse, Alphas, Akta Manniskor, Les Revenants...

    Turning what was once a pretty competitive drama category into a sustained Doctor Who victory lap (and look at this year, what, three Who nominations?) was around the point I could no longer take it seriously.
     
  11. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah. I like Doctor Who a lot, but it's ridiculously over-represented in Hugo nominations and wins, to a point where I'm pleased to see something else win, even though I don't think "Blackwater" and Game of Thrones are that great either. Doctor Who has had three of the five nominations in six of the eight years it's been eligible; in both of the other years it had two, and in one of those years there was also a Torchwood episode nominated.

    Of course, in the couple years before Who that the Short Form category existed, it was dominated by Joss Whedon shows, and I'm sure if the category had existed before that it would have been heavy on Star Trek. There's probably always going to be some franchise or writer fandom is disproportionately obsessed with, just as the same famous names get put up for the prose awards regardless of the quality of their latest.
     
  12. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire beat A Storm of Swords to the Hugo.


    They don't know shit.
     
  13. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Back in the old category, Star Trek: The Next Generation won twice, which is the same number of times as Babylon 5.

    And it's not just that Doctor Who wins almost every year, but that it is nominated multiple times, which mostly suggests the voters aren't watching much else genre TV besides Doctor Who (and just looking at the list here, Fringe was nominated exactly one time, Battlestar Galactica was nominated several times but literally never won...)
     
  14. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's hard to be objective but I'd definitely say that The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Amy's Choice, Vincent and The Doctor, The Girl Who Waited and The Name of The Doctor deserved nominations.

    There does seem to be some dumb Doctor Who that's been nominated just for the sake of it though. Planet of the Dead and The Next Doctor were nominated! That's just embarrassing. The Waters of Mars beat The Constant? Nonsense.
     
  15. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    Actually, I think Dr. Horrible beat The Constant. Which is just as baffling IMO. :p
     
  16. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Right, but the old category was so dominated by films (65 of 75 nominees in the period Star Trek shows were on the air) that it's impossible to say what would have gotten the nod if there was a separate short form category. I'm sure Babylon 5 would have been as visible as Star Trek during its run, but I'm not sure that being dominated by two (uneven) franchises is better than being dominated by one.

    It's not that they aren't watching other shows, it's that they're hardcore enough fans, and caught up in fandom enough, to feel that any Doctor Who is superior to everything else. It's the same reason Seanan McGuire, an obviously mediocre writer but prolific and visible in prose fiction fandom, got a record five nominations this year in prose categories. Hugo voters don't do nuanced analysis of quality; they go with what they and their friends have fun with.
     
  17. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not as annoying as subpar even for RTD wannabe blockbuster shlock being nominated alongside great science-fiction like Epitaph One. I wonder who Michelle Ryan had to blow for that nomination?
     
  18. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd say yes, by definition. It's not a perfect situation either but rival TV shows alternating wins is by definition better than the same show primarily competing against itself, and certainly better than the 'rival' show (in this case, Battlestar Galactica) never winning once.

    And really, uneven is a given. Has there ever been a genre series that was 1. consistently good and 2. not cancelled before it could have a second season?

    Which is precisely the problem. This should be a judgement of sci-fi TV, not Doctor Who and occasionally maybe that alternate universe episode of that American sitcom that has its own take on Doctor Who.
     
  19. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I suppose it's minimally preferable, although "alternating wins" is something of a stretch; I imagine B5 would have won pretty much in the years it did anyway, with Trek dominating otherwise. I should have written "is much better than being dominated by one." At this point, with Game of Thrones likely to be a serious contender for the next couple years at least, we're back to that scenario anyway. At least it isn't two space-based SF franchises this time.

    My larger point is that the problem isn't Doctor Who or Doctor Who fans in particular, but that having what is essentially a TV episodes category means that the current flavor of the year will dominate. Doctor Who is especially bad because it's especially popular, but if you take it out of the nomination lists, you get ballots that are less skewed, but still heavy on Whedon, Abrams, Galactica.
    Well, there's probably never been any TV series that meets those criteria. But I think SFF on TV has remained wildly uneven at a time when other genres are becoming more consistent. (SFF is also better than it was, God knows, but not to the same degree.) Which is why there's an upper limit to my frustration with Doctor Who's domination of the category: variety is always nice, but I'm hard pressed to believe anything that lost to it deserved to be thought of as great science fiction. Maybe "Epitaph One" was that good-- I keep meaning to give Dollhouse another shot-- and The Lost Thing probably deserved better than fifth place behind a music video. Actually, that's the biggest shame about the Short Form category: that genuinely interesting and unusual short films are likely to be shut out in favor of TV episodes and comedy sketches.
     
  20. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    You've said this twice now but the S1 premiere, 33 won the Hugo.
     

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