A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ Nah, it wasn't that bit that made me emotional, I think it was Shmully feeling trapped because he realised he was the cause of all the upheaval. For some reason that resonated with me.
     
  2. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Well, it wasn't the "real" Doctor technically. Which could have almost been a whole episode topic unto itself...

    That said, "Living Witness" is great, among VGR's and Trek overall's best for sure. (And I don't normally get to say that about VGR so I'm relishing it. :techman:)

    It had a strong message that required only a minor tweak to the established "rules" of the show to set the stage, and here we see that done right and for good reason. The episode even built nicely on the idea from seasons one/two that Voyager had gotten a bad rep in the Kazon part of the quadrant, and the alternate crew was great. As Jimmy Bob says (and it appears in my sig from his VGR thread): "This Janeway was so awesome she assimilated the Borg." :rommie:

    The single teensy tiny nitpicky thing that irks me is that the museum set was reused in "Insurrection" and is therefore slightly tainted. :p
     
  3. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Damn, why'd you have to tell me that? Now I'm going to have to deduct a whole star. :(
     
  4. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Really, that is something that irks you? It's actually something I like, because it is one of these things only we Star Trek fans will notice. It makes us feel smarter than the occasional viewer. :D

    Also, reusing sets is pretty much a Trek tradition.
     
  5. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Yes as I said towards the end the show really hit some emotional marks but I still didn't feel it was enough for me to honor it with 4 stars or on your scale 5 stars. I usually can tell when an episode is going to get a high score because I find myself being able to write paragraphs upon paragraphs about all the various things I liked that made me feel it was a 4 star show. I mean I can write up a review for "The Best of Both Worlds" and could go on for pages about it.

    I am reaaaally greedy when I hand those scores out. Maybe it comes from a few years as an associate professor where I was a strict grader and something had to really be spectacular to receive an "A" in my class.

    I guess the easiest example of an episode that would get 4 stars from me that isn't an event episode would be TNG's "The Measure of a Man". That show managed to stimulate me intellectually and emotionally and every single scene was relevant and well done contributing to an outstanding episode from teaser to credits. Just my two cents. I realize Living Witness is really popular but I just didn't like it nearly as much.
     
  6. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Living Witness is a great episode to show to Voyager haters.

    I consider it one of the best eps the series has to offer.

    The intro is a lot of fun and the final shot of the Doctor in his heroic pose makes me feel good every time I see it.
     
  7. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    [Jedi Mind Trick] There is no "Insurrection." [/Jedi Mind Trick]

    This is true... I do like making myself feel smarter. :p

    I suppose it doesn't take away from me enjoying the episode, it just reminds me of "Insurrection" and how it seems silly for a shipboard plastic surgery facility to be built out of a tiered museum.

    Crap.

    [Jedi Mind Trick] There is no "Insurrection." [/Jedi Mind Trick]
     
  8. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Insurwhat? :confused:
     
  9. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    [Burns] Exxxcellllent. [/Burns] :evil:
     
  10. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I have to agree.
     
  11. TedShatner10

    TedShatner10 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Count me in as another supporter of "Living Witness" and the writer who done this also wrote the script for Heroes' "Company Man" and was a head writer/producer for the much missed Pushing Daisies.

    Here is my ratings breakdown for Season Two, personally arguably the most uneven and weakest VOY season:

    "The 37s" - 6/10
    "Initiations" - 4/10
    "Projections" - 9/10
    "Elogium" - 3/10
    "Non Sequitur" - 4/10
    "Twisted" - 3/10
    "Parturition" - 5/10
    "Persistance of Vision" - 5/10
    "Tatoo" - 3/10 (arguably patronising racist undertones)
    "Cold Fire" - 5/10
    "Maneuvers" - 6/10
    "Resistance" - 7/10
    "Prototype" - 6/10
    "Alliances" - 5/10
    "Threshold" - -1/10 (Braga divided by zero)
    "Meld" - 7/10 (great guest star elevates proceedings)
    "Dreadnought" - 4/10
    "Death Wish" - 8/10
    "Lifesigns" - 6/10
    "Investigations" - 5/10
    "Deadlock" - 7/10 (good episode but silly resolution)
    "Innocence" - 2/10 (dumber reproduction cycle than the Ocompa's)
    "The Thaw" - 8/10
    "Tuvix" - 7/10
    "Resolutions" - 4/10
    "Basics Pt. 1" - 6/10
     
  12. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It was the real doctor.

    @Tedshatner10, you're accidentally scoring some episodes out of 5 instead of 10.
     
  13. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It was a backup copy of the "original" Doctor. While it was the same in all other ways to the "real" Doctor that went home with Voyager, it wasn't quite the same. It was a little like a reverse of the Will/Tom Riker scenario. They were the same up to a point, but after that they diverged.
     
  14. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    So it was our doctor that we had seen up the that point, he still had all the memories and experiences of our doctor, he was the same program. And that made it sad.
     
  15. TedShatner10

    TedShatner10 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Doh, so I was. :wtf:

    This how I rate Season Four (again):

    "Scorpion Pt. 2" - 8/10
    "The Gift" - 7/10
    "Day of Honor" - 7/10
    "Nemesis" - 6/10
    "Revulsion" - 7/10
    "The Raven" - 8/10
    "Scientific Method" - 6/10
    "Year of Hell Pt. 1" - 9/10
    "Year of Hell Pt. 2" - 7/10
    "Random Thoughts" - 6/10
    "Concerning Flight" - 5/10
    "Mortal Coil" - 8/10
    "Waking Moments" - 6/10
    "Message in a Bottle" - 9/10
    "Hunters" - 8/10
    "Prey" - 8/10
    "Retrospect" - 7/10
    "The Killing Game Pt. 1" - 6/10
    "The Killing Game Pt. 2" - 4/10
    "Vis a Vis" - 5/10
    "The Omega Directive" - 6/10
    "Unforgettable" - 4/10
    "Living Witness" - 10/10
    "Demon" - 3/10
    "One" - 8/10
    "Hope and Fear" - 7/10
     
  16. AdmiralSteven

    AdmiralSteven Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I agree with the bolded part. Being stranded in a distant part of the galaxy was fascinating to me and one of the main reasons I watched it...not to mention how they would solve having the Maquis crew on board Voyager.
     
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I agree. I felt bad for him, but at the same time I felt pretty confident that the "original" Doc had made it home with the crew by the time everything in "Living Witness" was going on, so it made me feel differently sad for this Doc. It's surprising this Doc didn't have more of an identity crisis.
     
  18. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You must have been highly disappointed then.
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Demon (*)

    The ship has suddenly run out of power and the crew are forced to evacuate to only a small number of decks. When did this happen? :confused: It seems rather sudden considering the extreme measures being taken, but I guess we'll get an interesting story about the crew rationing things now, eh?

    They land on a planet and get replicated by pools mercury, you say? :wtf: Oh boy...

    It is hard to pin just why this episode fails, it's a perfect storm of suckiness. The humour is bad, there is a group of scenes between Tom and Harry at the beginning where they say lame jokes to one another until you just wish they would suffocate. Then their air runs out and they suffocate, and the episode earns itself a point. :techman: While this is happening there is some "hilarious" scenes where Neelix moves into sickbay with three mutes and they annoy Dr Shmully, but sadly none of them suffocate. :(

    Then there's a whole bunch of crap about silver blood trying to eat the ship, B'Elanna talked to Vorrik in engineering because he is now her deputy (poor Carey), and Tom and Harry manage to survive for around 8 hours without oxygen. To finish it off the whole crew replicate themselves and leave silver blood clones on the planet. I'm not even going to get into how stupid that is.
     
  20. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    "Demon." :sigh:

    TAS already went the "two crewmembers altered by a planet" route in "The Ambergris Element," although "Demon" puts the twist of it not actually being them. The only good thing to come out of "Demon" is "Course: Oblivion."

    I can't help but feel that a good version of "Demon" was the "repairs" episode we needed after "The Killing Game."