A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Yeah, last time this episode come on air, I sat through about ten minutes and then shut the TV off. Just could not sit through it. I can't stand the idea that the writers seemed to have gone with - 'We need Tom to be a total ass for this story to happen, so, ass he shall be.' Tom's in the lead on my list of favorite characters based on his personality, which is closer to my own that the other crew, so seeing that tossed aside so they can get this lame body snatchers riff to work... Not pleasing to me.
     
  2. brcarthey

    brcarthey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    you make it sound like that's all there was to this episode. you completely disregard the body switching and the premise of the not knowing how good one's got it until they don't. i admit this is not my favorite tom-centric episode either, but your review just seems off or incomplete. he's not a perfect person and i think the writers just tried to over-emphasize that here to the point of melodramatism. but he does try to atone for his transgressions at the end.

    but, my bigger concern is how the writers treated the incident b/t the fake tom and b'elanna. i've always wondered if the fake tom and b'elanna had make-up sex (which i think they did), wouldn't that be considered sexual assault b/c that dude wasn't tom and took advantage of an unsuspecting b'elanna?
     
  3. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Vis à Vis... oy. I might give it *½. Definitely one of the weakest on season 4.
     
  4. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Hi - I'm new on these boards but found this thread and have had a great time reading it so far - it has even inspired me to dust off my Voyager DVDs and rewatch the series. Though perhaps starting off with The Killing Game & Vis à Vis was not the best idea!

    My main issue with Vis is that it is so contrived - it seems like the writers came up with a story about body swapping with a moral at the end of the tale about learning to appreciate what you've got and then decided to fit Paris into it. So he acts like he does because that is what the plot needs not because that is what the character is like. Here's where a bit of continuity may have helped - if we had seen Tom feeling bored and wanting a change for a few episodes then the theme of this episode might have had an impact but when the problem comes out of nowhere in the same episode that the main threat provides the solution to it then it feels more like a cartoon story than a real exploration of character.

    On top of that it doesn't help that it comes straight after The Killing Game - surely fighting space Nazi's was out of the ordinary enough for him!

    Tom isn't the only one who suffers from the plot though - poor Chakotay is required to look stupid in the initial bridge scenes and then at the climax so that Tom can be the dynamic hero in this episode. Oh and another place where the damage in the last episode could have been mentioned - B'elanna says she can't go down to the planet with fake Tom because she doesn't even have an hour to spare as she is so busy. They could have said she was still cleaning up the Hirogen mess but they didn't so now it just looks like she's busy because that's what the plot required - the rest of the crew look pretty calm after all. I'm probably being a bit unfair here as all TV uses these shortcuts from time to time but it really stands out given how dull the episode is.

    One last thing - I'm not sure having your two guest actors doing all the heroic things at the end of the episode is a great idea- I know Bulldog is supposed to be Tom at that point but there's very little difference in this performance to his version of Stef (or whatever he was called) at the beginning. All in all it's a very flat ending.

    Oh well here's hoping for better in the next episode.
     
  5. Dane_Whitman

    Dane_Whitman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I don't care much for Vis à Vis, but one thing that stood out to me was the excellent design of the alien starships we see (briefly) in this episode. What a shame they were wasted on such an episode!
     
  6. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Agreed. :rommie:

    This story could have even been told better while the crew were at some allied station making repairs to the ship (instead of Tom's Camaro, beauty though it was.) Was the ship itself really necessary to be in action for this episode? I think not. Make it a hybrid "Tom gets body-switched" A-story and "fixing the ship" B-story, or vice versa. Have Tom get switched with no one noticing at first amidst the repairs, then they start figuring it out.

    If I'd had my druthers, the whole episode should have really been a "fixing the ship" story about the crew's angst and mixed feelings of hope and despair - hope that they had had contact with the AQ but now despair that things seem to be getting worse.

    And the ship would have stayed scarred, at least somewhat. I think by this point 3/4 of their ship shots were now CGI, so they could have easily tweaked the Voyager mesh.

    ...who? :shifty:

    This is true.
     
  7. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I take it you're not a Frasier fan then?
     
  8. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Eh, a casual viewer. I mean, I like it. But I don't watch it much.
     
  9. Fish1941

    Fish1941 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager


    I disagree. In fact, I think that your assessment of VOYAGER is an exaggeration.
     
  10. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    He atones for it by screwing B'Elanna in a Camero. I'd knowingly commit the crime if that was the atonement I had to go through, I'd commit the crime multiple times from as many angles as possible.

    Oh, you chose a bad time to join the thread. :lol: You should have joined in a few day ago around the time of Message in a Bottle, there was a good run of episodes after that.

    Agreed, there was some really good designs in this episode and it is a real shame that they only appeared in two or three shots each.

    You and I need to write our on Star Trek show. ;) With blackjack! And hookers!
     
  11. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Dude, that would be awesome! :rommie: ;)
     
  12. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    We'd have to replace the blackjack with Dabo, of course. And the hookers would need to be replaced with Dabo girls... actually, we'd just end up recreating DS9 again.


    The Omega Directive (**)


    On the surface this episode has a lot of things which should make it great, the omega directive itself is such an interesting concept that the episode could have been expanded to be an epic two-parter. It certainly deserves that treatment more than The Killing Game. But just by looking at the score you can tell I have serious problems with this episode.

    Some people think that Voyager ruined the Borg in the later seasons, particularly during Unimatrix Zero and Endgame. Some think the Borg were ruined on TNG with Descent. Some think the Damage began with the introduction of the Queen in First Contact. I think the major damage to the Borg was done right here in this episode. I don't like the idea of the Borg being spiritual and seeking out the omega particle in order to marvel at "perfection". What made the Borg so cool was that their motivation was purely to assimilate everything into their collective, this religious BS about achieving perfection doesn't work for me at all. Seven's story in this episode failed for me because of this.

    My second problem is that I just don't understand why omega is a big secret or why they are compelled to destroy it. I understand that it's dangerous and Starfleet don't want it falling into the wrong hands, but knowing that it exists doesn't mean that people are going to know how to make it into a weapon. I know that nuclear bombs exist, but I don't have a clue about how to make one.

    And why does Voyager need to destroy omega? There was a risk that it would destroy subspace in the region, but Janeway's plan involved blowing it up real good and letting it destroy subspace in a particular region of space. They blew it up to prevent it from blowing up? :wtf:

    The whole thing is stupid anyway because Janeway's decision to destroy it is only preventing the problem in the short term, her failure to try and negotiate with these aliens means that they'll probably just create more omega particles within a year. The aliens need omega because they have depleted their energy resources, they're not going to stop just because of a set-back like this. And Voyager seems to have plenty of energy every week (unless the plot demands otherwise), Janeway could have agreed to give them some of their energy producing technology in return for stopping production on omega. They were breaching the Prime Directive anyway, so why not?

    There's a good sense of doom from the episode, and a lot of good stuff early on when the crew don't know what is going on, but ultimately it falls apart.
     
  13. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The Omega Directive gets 2.5 stars from me.

    It seems as if season four peaked around Prey and then proceeded a slow decline into mediocrity for the most of the remainder of the season. I didn't care for Vis a Vis, One, Unforgettable, Demon, Hope and Fear and this Lisa Klink penned episode.

    Unlike some of her episodes, this wasn't bad or awful just very boring. None of it really interested me so I don't have a lot to say about it.

    The episode started off in an interesting fashion with the mysterious Omega symbol popping up all over the bridge monitors but the revelation of what it is all about is pretty pedestrian. I usually like Mulgrew's acting but I found her far too strident in this episode and frankly by this point in the series I was tired of the Janeway must go it alone attitude.

    Beyond the story itself not being compelling, I didn't like the idea of Seven viewing the Omega particle in religious terms. The Borg are beyond that and it really doesn't fit well with them. Faith and spirituality is the antithesis for a soulless collective intelligence who should view religion as irrelevant as love or some other cultural construct. So Seven's awed expression as she views the particle working in perfect unison fell flat.

    I did like a few small details--Seven explaining to Kim about how no one really dies in the Collective since the sum total of their memories remain, the debut of the Vulcan game kalto, the continuity tip of the hat to the Genesis device. I also thought it was cute how Seven turned her team into a mini-collective assigning designations.

    The aliens were dull, the battle sequences weren't anything special.
     
  14. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I would give Omega Directive two stars as well. Not my favorite episode and I was shocked to find it as a fan pic on fan collection DVD. [​IMG]
     
  15. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I quite liked the idea of the Omega Directive - it's quite different from your standard Voyager episode with a stronger sci-fi element than usual. However the religious aspect feels more like the writers needed a new subject to explore with Seven rather than a convincing element of the Borg. That said, I can't remember the details but I'm sure the last Destiny book makes good use of the Borg & Omega.

    As mentioned there were some nice touches - I liked that when Chakotay confronted Janeway over the issue she agreed relatively quickly rather than making the episode about the argument. It felt like after this long stranded together that is where the relationship should be rather than Janeway obsessing about Starfleet regulations.

    Pretty average all in all but more thoughtful than most Voyager episodes.
     
  16. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Generally, I found the whole concept that the borg could have a culture or spiritual beliefs without individuality to be implausible. That observation is not just for this epidose but in general.

    That being said I would rate this one higher. I think it did a good job touching on what happens if a ship in Voyager's situation needs to follow a directive but doesn't have the support it would normally have if not in the Delta quadrant.
     
  17. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Utterly Forgettable (*½)

    An alien wants to escape his oppressive government so he boards Voyager, but an agent from that government also boards Voyager to capture him. Janeway decides to help this agent so they capture the alien and forcefully send him home. Everyone forgets this ever happened. Two weeks later this agent shows up on Voyager because she wants to escape the same oppressive government. Janeway decides the government is mean and oppressive and promises to protect her from the nasty agents sent to recover her.

    Here you have it folks, many people criticise Janeway for making wildly erratic and conflicting decisions between different episodes, but here we see her make two completely conflicting decisions in the same episode. Plot leading character: bad.

    No I did not like this episode, and the fact that the woman was apparently on the ship while the Hirogen were in charge doesn't help it's case. Trek has trouble doing romance and for every one story which worked (e.g. Lifesigns) there's five that don't. The romance here is so incredibly bland; they eat ice-cream and then they kiss as the music swells in the background. I know that when you're in love doing boring things together such as washing the dishes or watching Voyager (hey-oh! ;)) can be enjoyable, but to an outside observer it is just boring. I like what the episode is trying to be, but I don't like what it is.
     
  18. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You know, I had to search Memory Alpha to remember what the episode was about, even though I watched all of VOY just a few months ago. :rommie: I guess the aliens's magic worked then.
     
  19. Dane_Whitman

    Dane_Whitman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Yep, Unforgettable is epic suckage.
     
  20. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    People, don't hate me, but I somewhat like this one. Mostly because I like the idea of Kellin's race (although I must admit that it didn't make a lot of sense how even tricorder readings can't remember her :rolleyes:). I guess it's also because I like Chakotay and get a kick out of seeing Virginia Madsen in Star Trek. I loved her in Sideways!