A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Oh, this is almost as bad as the time I woke up to find a surgical scare on my left side. I don't even want to know what is missing. :eek:

    I'm just trying to help by lowering your expectations. ;) I made the mistake of getting caught up in the hype in the days before seeing it so I was expecting a four star movie at least. The score steadily dropped as the film went on and levelled out around the time that Leonard Nimoy showed up because at that point I stopped waiting for the the spectacular movie I had heard about to appear.

    I don't have to change my name to something evil, do I? Because DevilBen looks unbalanced.

    Yeah, that was pointless, she already had one foot out the door, there was no need to kick her the rest of the way.
     
  2. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Also how did Kes's shuttle get 100,000 kilometers away in a matter of seconds?
    Is that how fast shuttles go?

    Also, referring to the scene where Lien looks pissed off/confused during the mind meld sequence and just wants to get off the set already, this is the picture

    [​IMG]

    And here's some more cute pictures...sigh the last time we ever got to see the wonderful beauty of Kes, makes me so sad that one of the most beautiful trek characters was dumped.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2009
  3. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You know, the contrived ship-blowing-up-let's-get-her-to-a-shuttle bit really did nothing. Why couldn't she just evolve? They always called Kes the 'mayfly' character in the Bible because of her short span - why not take her the butterfly route? Explain that for Ocampa, their physical existence can be a larval stage and that they can turn into this awesome non-corporeal psychic-powered butterfly (metaphorically speaking) if they're properly developed, and say the Voyager crew is why she was able to achieve this and no Ocampa have done it for millennia.

    So just have Kes transform and be like "I see everything so differently now... I can't stay here anymore, because just as I did when I left Ocampa to join this ship because I wanted to learn my potential, I must leave you now. I'm not strong enough to send you home, but here's a parting gift. I'll be back when I've seen the universe... and I'll be watching over you." And in classic Trek style she turns into a pretty energy being and flies away, and Voyager hurls clear of Borg space.

    I don't know, I just can't help but see her as Trek's version of Jean Grey/Phoenix from the X-Men - someone who's always underestimated and maybe doesn't know how to control their own potential, but who is ultimately powerful and still does the right thing. (And "Fury" frankly didn't help that image of Kes as Jean.)

    So in that regard, "The Gift" mostly worked for me.
     
  4. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'd rate this episode higher (than just about everyone else here apparently). I've always enjoyed this episode, and would give it 4 stars.

    Oh. And I loved the movie, and rank it as the best in the film series, followed by 'The Wrath of Khan' & 'First Contact'. I'd say more but I've not mastered the spoiler tags and don't want to ruin anything for anyone.
     
  5. Denara Pel

    Denara Pel Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I think you should have written Kes' swan song. It certainly is more believable, authentic and supportive of the Ocampa canon.

    The analogy of Kes to Jean Grey is a good one.
     
  6. Denara Pel

    Denara Pel Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Sorry for this.
     
  7. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Agreed - that would have been a lovely send-off for Kes. A part of me wants to believe that somewhere in the back of the writers minds, that was the original intention for Kes, giving her friends that push they needed to get home in the final episode, though I know the evidence doesn't support that.
     
  8. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    As I see it, no one should have written any "swan song" for Kes.

    The character is to good to be dumped for very dubious reasons, like a piece of trash.

    There shouldn't have been any "send off" at all.
     
  9. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Frankly I'd rather have seen Harry get eaten inside out by those tentacles than see Kes leave.
     
  10. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Nah, I don't want to dump Harry either, even if he's a rather weak character compared to the others. None of the main characters should have been dumped.
     
  11. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Day of Honour (**½)

    Shuttles Lost: 6

    I just gave you that motherfrakking shuttle!! :mad: What the frak are you morons doing?! It was a gift, and you spit it back in my face?! I ought to strangle the lot of you!!

    *cough*

    Does anybody know what the point of the first half of this episode was? There was a lot of stuff about B'Elanna and some Klingon ritual and there didn't seem to be much of a point to it, and to be perfectly frank I found it boring. "Me, B'Elanna. Me Klingon. Me angry." Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard it all before.

    The second half where Tom and B'Elanna are trapped in space was quite good, I wish that had been the whole episode. Not only was it just two characters talking, something I immensely enjoy watching, but it felt unique because it took place in space and I don't remember seeing that in Star Trek before. It appeals to the nerdy side of my nature that would love to float about in space for a few hours, although preferably with a full oxygen supply.

    The b-story involving Seven was your run of the mill Star Trek story that had some very hokey dialogue towards the end. At least Jeri Ryan toned it down this week, and my ears thank her for that. :)
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I tend to agree. More stranded in space second part, less first part, no Seven b-story and we've got a nice dramatic episode.

    (And I should have warned you they would have looked the gift-horse-shuttle in the mouth! :mad:)
     
  13. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I don't think the writers of this show like me. :( Did Jeri Taylor write this because of what I said about Coda?
     
  14. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I think that's a distinct possibility... :(
     
  15. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    That's it then, if the writers are this sensitive then there's no way I'm going to see Trek XII. :(
     
  16. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Depending what my reaction is in about 45 minutes when I go, I may not either. :p
     
  17. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Just say really nice things about it and they'll make a sequel just for you. I think that's how it works.
     
  18. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The Gift...meh. Would have worked better if there was a longer build up to Kosmic Kes. I would have rather seen BLT, Neelix or Harry get the boot.

    Day of Honor. I don't know, I'm just not a big fan of BLT centric eps. I never really liked the BLT/Paris pairing that much. I just don't get why anybody would want to be with BLT. For me the spooning in space part was cringe worthy in the extreme.
     
  19. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I've always felt that this story was nicely set up in "Before & After", and that this was just the fallout from that episode. I honestly don't care what was going on behind the scenes and don't really want to know. In that previous episode they show that Kes has lived her entire life span - and she had a good full life, but instead of dying, she travels back through time to the 3rd Season of Voyager. So everything after that point is just extra time; every day after that has been a gift that she shouldn't be experiencing anyways. She'd been known to have wacky mind powers since Seasons 1 & 2, and I just connected that with her extra long life (for her species) so that this 'death' (which really isn't a death, but still...) felt appropriate to me. I took this as a sign that Voyager was actually showing the consequences of her life experience (a rare thing on this show) - so I was moved by that.

    This rating seems about right...and yet when I think about episodes with previous ratings such as this from previous seasons...I enjoyed this one more than those, and would be more prone to seeing this one. If that makes any sense.

    I like the T/B thing. At the time it aired I felt it was another step in the right direction for this series. It flowed nicely with a few moments from the previous season. I don't know that they were always handled extremely well, but this was a nice step, and I was glad to see we were seeing character relationships being built that seemed to reflect the situation of the series.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  20. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Well said.

    Still, from what I remember, "The Gift" was as good an exit for Kes as they could have hoped to have done. It's a shame "Fury" went and shat on everything a few years later. I actually only saw it the once, probably when it was first on, so I need to revisit it.

    My nitpick was that Kes supposedly threw them clear of Borg space, and I think that is consistent with the rest of series four. Yet from the fifth season onwards, they couldn't move for Borg cubes. Couldn't she have sent them 60,000 light years rather than 6000? Gift horses, mouths, and all that.

    "Day of Honour" is just an excuse to get Torres and Paris together, and as such it does the job fairly well. It's a shame they had to do the "trapped and dying" cliché, but at least having them in space was actually a new idea for Star Trek - and probably better visually than the alternative of trapping them in the caves set. I liked the fact that they couldn't touch because of the space suits though. I think their relationship was actually one of the best things about latter-day Voyager, as it was very believable, but they had fights and acted like a couple. Other Trek couples, like Riker and Troi, Worf and Troi, Chakotay and Seven, and to an extent Worf and Dax, didn't really have that.