A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Man, I wasn't really being serious. Something about that name bugs me for some reason, but it doesn't really matter.
     
  2. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I really don't mind - Although based on the episodes, he seemed to adopt 'the Doctor' as his only name, Schmullus is a little more personal than a name we normally think of merely as a title (unless said title, of course, is followed by the word 'Who'). We refer to the other characters by their first names, so it doesn't really matter to me if GodBen keeps using it.
     
  3. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'll just say after reading you go with the whole Shmullus thing, I am very thankful now that the writers of this series didn't keep the name. ;)
     
  4. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Keep using it. :)
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    How about a compromise; Dr S?
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Actually, I do find the "Shmullus" moniker funny. Sort of a trademark for your posts.

    Not a bad name either, even if I do prefer "Dr.ZImmerman", which was used in some of the early Voyager books.

    I was actually toying with the idea to start calling Naomi Wildman "Greskrendtregk" since Samantha Wildman suggested that name for the baby. However, I checked with Memory Alpha and realized it was a male name and also the name of Naomi's father so I decided to scrap the idea. :)
     
  7. Jayson

    Jayson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Instead of Shumus I want you to star calling him Emergy medical Holgram but translate that into how that sounds in latin and then spell it backwards.


    Jason
     
  8. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I have some articles from 1994 that said Louis Zimmerman was the name of Voyager's doctor, and when he died in the pilot ep, he was supposed to have left behind a holographic imprint of himself, apparently still calling itself the same name. There were a lot of promo materials with "Doc Zimmerman" references around that time. Looks like they changed the concept a bit...
     
  9. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Well, phonetically Shmullus does sound rather funny. I think it's because of the combination of the initial sibilant and the double 'L' framed by the two 'U's.
     
  10. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Praetor I expect better from you!

    Somebody break out the rubber hoses!

    :p
     
  11. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Whoa. I've missed a lot....so...long reply. My bad.

    The arrival of the Doctor's mobile emitter is the only thing that allows me to stomach these episodes. The redneck plot in part 2 is just terrible. Ick.

    I agree with the rating. It could have been worse, but wasn't very good. I did like Jennifer's performance and the semi-gay / bi stuff.

    I find this episode almost unwatchable, except for Lady Q. She amuses me, even though much of her is poorly written - I think the actress made her significantly better than the writing did. But not enough to make me rewatch this episode.

    I missed this episode when it first aired, and only got to see it when I bought the DVDs. I thought the story was terrible. I thought the virus made no sense. I did think they made the virus icky enough...the rest of the story was just...it didn't quite arrive though, and that's a shame.

    I'd rate this one **1/2. It's one of those episodes where I can see that the quality is better than average, yet I don't care.

    I liked this one more than you. I'd give it ***. Tuvok's random behavior and his blaming it all on being a Vulcan is the norm, so by this time I didn't really take that as a negative. I also thought the guest actress did a great job, and I liked the idea of the nebula and the alien makeup and I just liked it. It's more than the sum of it's parts for me.

    I'd give it * simply because I don't do the zero stars thing. But this is another episode that feels like it had a good idea behind it that just went horribly wrong in execution. There are things in it that I want to like, but don't. The time loop is the thing that annoys me most. I just...don't want to be reliving those lame scenes over and over again. The first time was bad enough...and then...ugh. The ingrediants are there for something better than this...but they never quite came to a boil.

    And for the record - I like Janway / Chakotay. I'd just prefer their moments be better written...and watchable.

    Exactly! I'm not bashing J/C peeps by not liking this episode; I am a J/C fan...so that would be pointless. I just wish such elements were in episodes that I enjoyed watching.

    Pretty much what I was going to say in response. I'd also expand on that by saying that while Next Generation could have had a Dominion War storyline, I don't think it would have been as impressive simply because the characters on Next Generation weren't as developed as those on DS9. Besides the fact that I don't see the Enteprise (or Voyager) camping outside the wormhole for the rest of the series - but with DS9 it made sense.

    I agreed with everything you said in this section of your review, but especially this bit:

    This is one of those 'false continuity' moments that could have been great...if there had been anything to build it on except the words of the characters in whatever episode they're talking in. This happens more than once in Voyager and it irks me to no end. Compare this funeral scene to the one in DS9's "The Visitor" in which we only hear a fragment of what Kira has to say about Sisko yet it completely resonates with everything we've ever seen between those two characters. Maybe that's the real problem here; nothing seems real; nothing resonates with any real emotions - all the emotion here is fake. It makes this Voyager scene seem like a farce, when it should be pulling at heart strings. I'm not saying that this scene failed because we didn't see the encounter that he spoke of - I'm saying it failed because we never saw any indication that the scene he described would have happened. It's just...ugh. It hurts my head to think about it.

    I've always, always really enjoyed these episodes! They're fun. And I like that something that turns up in 'Blood Fever' comes to a head in 'Unity'. And we knew that the Borg came from the Delta Quadrant from Next Generation so I was excited to finally see some Borg episodes (at this point) - and I was just very happy with these installments. I'm not saying they're perfect - but they're just so much better than a number of episodes that aired before them (and directly after them - though I didn't know that at the time), that by comparison I felt hopeful that the series had started to right itself. 2 good episodes in a row! I remember that these episodes aired around the same time as the spectacular DS9 2 parter "In Purgatory's Shadow" / "By Inferno's Light" - and also "Star Trek: First Contact" had been released about 3 months before, and I saw it again in a dollar theater about this time - and I was just so happy to be a Star Trek fan - with everything going so well in 3 different Trek incarnations. It didn't last of course...but it was a great couple of weeks. :techman:

    I agree. I remember being very happy with the final episodes of Season 3, and loving MOST of Season 4. Season 4 of Voyager was the golden year of Trek for me. Season 6 of DS9 was kicking ass - and I remember thinking to myself that Voyager had finally, thankfully arrived! :)

    This episode sucks on so many levels that I've never been able to make it through the whole thing. And I've tried several times, and will again in the near future, as something from this episode turns up in the new Voyager novel and I want to understand whats going on. Or maybe that was just an odd nightmare that I had... I'll have to double check.

    Indeed. Continuity demands consequences. Character development demands consequences. Realism (even in a fantasy based series) demands consequences.

    Well it doesn't bother me, but it doesn't seem to represent the Doctor. I mean...he doesn't really have a name. Which was just another storyline that went nowhere. Calling him Shmullus doesn't bother me because I know what character you're referring to, but it's almost like you're giving the writers more credit than they are due.

    Again - Sorry for the long reply. I just wanted to comment on stuff. Please continue. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  12. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ No need to apologise. I enjoyed reading your thoughts. :techman:
     
  13. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ Well I'm glad I managed to not annoy everyone with my long delayed thoughts. :lol:

    Thanks for taking the time to read them.
     
  14. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Try watching it while playing with a broken popsicle stick, it helps to pass the time. ;) And welcome back, I didn't realise you'd been away so long.


    Rise (**½)

    Get a group of characters, put them in a confined and hazardous space and watch them get on each other's nerves; the results are usually interesting and this episode is no exception. The story that takes place on the space elevator is mostly interesting before the plot takes over. Neelix is bearable and Tuvok isn't an asshole like he was back in Alter Ego.

    There is a very good scene where Neelix confronts Tuvok about his hatred for him and how that is an emotional response. I hadn't considered that before, and I can't believe I'm about to say this, but Neelix is right. Tuvok does hate Neelix, and here he comes to realise that which is a big thing for a Vulcan. If the episode had focused on this more then we would have had a real winner.

    Unfortunately there's a plot, and not a very good one. There's some boring stuff about artificial asteroids and evil aliens and murders and a lot of other rubbish which the episode didn't need. It should have just been a normal asteroid that hit the planet rather than adding in all this needless plot which gets in the way and ultimately detracts from the episode.

    As for the shuttle which crashed, I'm going to be really fair and suggest that it was recovered from the surface somehow, just like the one that crashed in Coda. But they are really pushing me on this issue.

    Torpedoes: 21/38


    Now as for the situation with Doctor S, I have decided I will no longer call him Shmullus. From now on I'm calling him Shmully in order to really confuse any random people who read the thread. :p
     
  15. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ Wow, you found Neelix bearable in rise? For me this is Neelix at his worst. And I'm a Neelix apologist, slightly anyway.
     
  16. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I pretty much agree with your assessment of Rise. I was hoping you wouldn't outright hate this episode like many seem to do. And I'm glad you don't.

    I think the combination of Tuvok and Neelix works wonderfully in this episode. I like this story because – like Fair Trade – it takes the character of Neelix a bit more seriously. Of course their scenes aren't all perfect, but both Ethan Phillips' and Tim Russ' performances helped me to esteem the notion of Neelix wanting Tuvok to respect him.

    What I also like about this episode is the idea of the magnetic levitation carriage. I know, that's pretty superficial, but it felt original and was well exectued if you ask me. (And I wouldn't be surprised at all if in one of the succeeding posts someone mentions how impossible and impractical it actually was.) Oh, and like you, I have a fondness for stories set in a confined space.

    You should definitely go for it! :lol:
     
  17. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Thanks. And I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Who knows? Maybe it could save the entire series? :techman:

    Agreed. This is another episode that I missed when it aired, on purpose, because it just looked dreadful, and I was still smarting from 'Darkling'. When I caught the episode on DVD the above scene impressed me too. But it was the highlight of a rather lame episode.

    So often with Voyager, there are these kinds of moments where I'm left wondering - why isn't this the heart of the episode? Why aren't the REAL character moments in 'Coda' the focus of the story? Why is Darkling about a wannabe split-personality that has no weight to it whatsoever, when all I wanted to know was what was going on with Kes? Why can't we have real emotions and real character depth and really look at that....and I think the sad truth is that the writers just didn't care enough to give us that. Because if they gave us those kinds of character revelations then they'd have to pay attention to the next story they told and it might be harder to force those characters into a situation in which the writers want them to react in a certain way, rather than in the way the character would have reacted as a result of their experiences in a previous episode. I do kind of understand that - there are stories that can't be told after a character moves from one place to another, and if you want to write those stories, you no longer can - but the question then becomes...does the telling of those stories become more important than the lives of the characters? For the Voyager writers that seemed to be the case. But for an audience that wants to love the series but then can't, the answer is definitely a no.

    And I'm one of those audience members that wanted to love Voyager. It's Star Trek. And I love Star Trek. And yet the writing of Voyager makes it very hard for me to enjoy the series. Which is why I connect with this thread. It's not about hating Voyager. It's about wanting to love it and the reasons why it's nearly impossible to do so. And that wanting to love the show has never left me...which is why the disappointment with the viewing experience still hurts.

    That's actually the part that I thought looked hokey in the trailer for the episode - but then when I actually saw it - I didn't have a problem with it at all, and I thought it worked rather well, which surprised me.

    You're being more leniant than I would have been, but it's just an example of the kind of things you have to put your brain through to enjoy the series. You have to say - well, they went back SOMEHOW to get that shuttle. And I can understand that. I've done that many times. And though that helps me enjoy the episodes in question...I'm never really convinced. :(

    It's also sad that the audience has to be the ones to keep track of how many shuttles and torpedoes they have. That's the kind of thing that the Voyager crew should have been seen worrying about. But that's an old complaint that everyone already understands...and I'll leave it alone for now.
     
  18. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    "Rise" almost made me slash my wrists with boredom. I really don't see how you could rate a fun romp like "Coda" below crap like "Rise".
    Who cares if "Rise" had some character development, when it comes down to it it was horribly filmed and just plain boring.
    I just don't understand what's going on in your mind GodBen
     
  19. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    If it helps, I don't understand your thought processes either...beyond understanding that everyone is different. Because for me 'Coda' wasn't a romp...and it certainly wasn't any fun. It just demonstrates that people respond to different stories differently. And it's not necessary that we agree or even understand one another; just that we acknowledge that we all have the right to our feelings and our reactions, and that because it's all subjective - all of our views are valid. And people not liking something that you enjoy shouldn't take away from your enjoyment, and if it does, I don't know why. :)
     
  20. Jaespol

    Jaespol Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Please tell me your avatar is not a picture of you.
     

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