A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I rate Voyager as only better than the ghastly Enterprise but I find it enjoyable enough. I think it's an overall positive contribution to the the Star Trek universe.
     
  2. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It is all part of a terrible conspiracy by the publishing industry to get people to read more books. You can read all about it in my book which should be out in June, I've planned for that month to produce particularly crap TV so that you should have time to read it. :)
     
  3. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Some very thoughtful posts in this thread... it's fascinating to see what people liked and disliked about Voyager. I definitely identify with the issue of the ship not being treated as a character (excellent point). And unlike the other episodes where there are seemingly limitless resources around, having Voyager eliminate all damage from the previous episode was just ludicrous.

    Sure, you don't want to have a couple of huge arcs in the story that mandate watching from the beginning (like Babylon 5), because of the impact on syndication ratings. But certainly there could be elements sustained from previous episodes and carried forward without compromising understanding of a given episode.

    I definitely enjoyed Voyager in bits and pieces. But as a whole, there were a lot of gaps and flaws in the 'fabric.' I'll never buy the DVD set unless I get a phenomenal discount. ;)
     
  4. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Now that BSG is done I'm not following a single show. This leaves me more time to read books, take the puppy for long walks and hang out with friends so it's not such a bad deal. If I want to veg I have my dvds. :)
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Tuvix (*½)

    Here is another controversial episode, it has perhaps caused some of the most contentious debates in all of Star Trek, and yet I cannot recommend it. It isn't because I disagree with Janeway's decision to kill Tuvix, it is because the episode itself is muddled and the ethical dilemma is rushed. I also hated Tuvix, and since he takes up most of the screen time it greatly detracted from my enjoyment of the episode.

    Tuvok and Neelix tend to annoy me for the most part, except when episodes focus upon them in which case they are okay, but when they are only in one or two scenes their character's usually grate my nerves. Tuvix is comprised of only the things I hate about Neelix and Tuvok and none of the things I like. It also doesn't help that Tuvix talks in a creepy voice and reminds me even more of a paedophile than Neelix does. :scream:

    The narrative feels disjointed, the first few acts are about the crew growing accustomed to Tuvix and the final act is about the ethical issue. There wasn't enough time to explore the issue at stake because of all the time frittered away introducing me to an annoying character who isn't going to be around come next week. Even the performances felt slightly off, this episode focused mainly on Tuvix, Kes and Janeway, and Jennifer Lien and Kate Mulgrew just didn't work for me quite as well as they usually would. I can't explain it, it just didn't feel right.

    I can't agree with Janeway's decision to kill Tuvix, the episode didn't give me enough information to make a decision. I don't understand why Janeway came to that conclusion, and without understanding why she came across as completely callous in the final scene. I hated Tuvix, but I need more of a reason to kill him than that. And what is completely unforgivable is the fact that we never got Neelix or Tuvok's impression of events at the end of the episode. How can the writers just ignore such an important thing?

    The episode asks some interesting questions, but it wasn't up to the high standard it needed to reach in order to explore this issue properly.
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    "Tuvix" is another of my top 20 favorites. I find it a great episode and also one of the episodes which have caused most debate on different forums. Did Janeway do the right thing or not? (I think she did in a very difficult situation.). Excellent thought-provoking story and good acting from all involved.

    Not to mention that the two people fused together were Tuvok and Neelix, the most opposite characters of the crew.

    I'll give it 5 points out of 5.
     
  7. Praetorian

    Praetorian Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'm guess I'm going to join this interesting thread as well. I won't review every episode before Tuvix..but I will say that I consider the Kazon/Seska storyline one of the most interesting things in Voyager possibly all of Star Trek. Investigations was a let down however, that I must admit.

    I think the first season was quite strong (only disliked Time and Again, Ex Post Facto and Cathexis which were quite derivative and/or boring to me), but the second season did have some disturbingly bad episodes particularly in the first half..but some excelent ones as well don't worry!

    The 31's, Elogium, Non Sequitur, Twisted, Parturition, Tatoo, Treshold, Innocence and The Thaw are all episodes that I wouldn't recommend.
    Also I must add that while I do think Resistance was a well written, acted and directed Tv momment it simply failed to hold my interest... I know, strange things happen...

    Regarding Tuvix, I thought it was a good thought provoking episode and entertaining as well! That's all I ask from Tv...
     
  8. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I have to agree with GodBen's assessment of 'Tuvix.' For me, it was somewhat thought provoking and ethically interesting, but ultimately felt incomplete, which, coupled with my irritation with the Tuvix character, has not left this a favorite of mine.

    The other big thing that bothered me about the episode was the IMO overly-technobabbly notion that two people could be fused via transporter, and then somehow successfully de-integrated. It bent my suspension of disbelief almost to the breaking point.

    I think I'd have found the episode more interesting if somehow Tuvok's katra had been accidentally (or even out of necessity, ala 'The Search for Spock') transferred into Neelix's body, with Tuvok's body theoretically terminally wounded. Not only does Tuvok's katra somehow bond with Neelix to produce a new 'hybrid' persona, but Tuvok's body is able to be recovered, and the 'new persona' which would call itself Tuvix, would argue to stay as it is. I think this type of explanation would have had greater resonance with what it seemed the epiosde was trying to do.
     
  9. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    This is now the most viewed topic in the Voyager forum, and I would like thank each and every one of you who took the time out of your lives to come into this thread and press F5 repeatedly as I requested back on the third page. :techman:

    Seriously though, I'm gratified by everyone who took interest in this personal project and encouraged me to keep posting my reviews. And it is great to see all the other people posting their own reviews and opinions, especially when we don't agree because I think we have had some very interesting discussions. Hopefully real life wont get in the way of me finishing this journey, because I have a lot to say about Endgame. ;)
     
  10. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You're such a suck up Praetor....all of your posts boil down to "I agree with GodBen"...you're just feeding his god complex. Next time disagree just for the hell of it. :p;):lol:
     
  11. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You don't need to say much about Endgame. The opinion is probably universal....much as with Threshold ....or perhaps you'll shock us all and really love that episode...and then we'll know that you have been kidnapped and replaced by the talifans :devil:
     
  12. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It was past the breaking point for me.
     
  13. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm looking forward to your glowing review on the awesomeness that was Voyager's finale. :techman:
     
  14. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    :p

    But then how will I ride his coattails to godhood? ;)

    Seriously, it is weird how much I find myself agreeing with him. If I were going through doing this, I would probably have the same original conclusions, and I don't think of myself as a hater, more as a fan. A critical fan, but a fan.

    I teetered constantly on the fence in this one. The fact that the transporter is a little magic on its own helped me suspend disbelief. It really does go past the breaking point completely for me in a lot of other eps, though.

    :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:
     
  15. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'm still afraid to rewatch the finale, which is the only episode on DVD I have not seen.
     
  16. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I always liked the Finale
     
  17. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Someone needs to feed my god complex, and if Praetor didn't then I would need to pay somebody to do it. And I lost my job so I wouldn't be able to afford it, and I'd end up on the streets begging people to agree with me. Do you really want that? :(

    You have about 7 or 8 months to brace yourself for the disappointment you are sure to feel. ;)
     
  18. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    My love for Season 1 Janeway endured through much of Season 2 until this episode. I thought the actor who played Tuvix did a great job, in that he sounded like Tuvok but was as annoying as Neelix - his merged costume was pretty, but silly - why did he not change his clothes? Or did he? I don't know. lol I remember this episode very clearly as the straw that broke my then-boyfriend's back. I'd gotten him hooked on DS9 (which he watched to the end) and he watched Voyager with me too, but he hated Janeway so much for murdering Tuvix, and I don't blame him; he'd watch every now and then, but he never looked at the crew in the same way. I didn't like the character of Tuvix myself, but I felt this turn for the Voyager crew is really where they started losing me. I didn't mind the idea of two people being spliced together (to a point), but the idea that they could then be separated just hurt my head - and then to have the characters murder Tuvix to get Tuvok & Neelix back (something I doubt Tuvok would approve of) made it hard for me to respect the characters at all - it was a completely selfish act. I could understand wanting them back, but to kill to get them crossed the line. I wasn't surprised at all when Alternate Admiral Janeway traveled back in time to save dead crewmen (and breaking every law to do it and risking far worse consequences) because we've already seen that Janeway right here.
     
  19. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'm not much of a Voyager fan. In fact, I gave up on it during season 5. Funnily enough, I've still seen nearly all episodes of it (German TV is rather repetitive...). So, normally I wouldn't be in the VOY forum at all but I once saw the title of your thread and have been checking it regularly since. I really like your insights, the humour and the interesting discussions in this thread.
    I hope that you'll tackle ENT once you're finished with VOY. I'm an ENT fan from the show's original run and played with the idea of rewatching it out of nostalgia. However, I've discovered a few great sci-fi series in the mean time and I'm a bit afraid that this will make ENT look pretty bad. It would be much easier if I joined just in with you if you get to it.
     
  20. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    No worries, I got you covered. ;)

    You make a good point. I am one who was not uncomfortable with Janeway putting her selfish hat on and doing bad things, if it is handled well. However, the fact that the ability to actually separate two people merged as they were seemed so implausible to me, and ultimately undermined any emotional or philosophical punch this might have been meant to have.