A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You laughed at my When Harry met Sally joke, of course I love your idea. ;):p

    That's something I hadn't thought of, but you're right, it is one of only a half dozen episodes from the whole canon which is based on Earth. I wish we could have seen more of it, but I will say that coffee containers in the future look pretty nifty.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  2. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Despite the logical flaws regarding the Ocampan breeding cycle "Elogium" still has some great moments so I would have rated it higher. "Non Sequitor" I normally skip when reviewing the show.
     
  3. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    My thoughts exactly.

    Elogium was a fun to watch, most definitely. Non Sequitor is not rewatchable for me. I have never been too fond of episodes where the focus is on one character who is running around somewhere else than on Voyager. That's why 11:59 is one of my least favorite episodes, even though it is a Janeway episode. I don like 11:59 at all.
     
  4. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I feel the same way about 11:59. :)
     
  5. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Really? I actually enjoyed "11:59.' Not the framing story (which was rather lame) as much as the flashback itself. It had Kevin Tighe of 'Emergency.'

    Why are you looking at me like that? :shifty:

    But one season at a time...
     
  6. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    :lol:
     
  7. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It's my turn to agree with you. ;) I also remember enjoying 11:59, but it has been a long time since I have seen it so I might have an entirely different opinion once I see it again.
     
  8. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Whoa. People are going to start thinking we're the same person... :p

    I haven't watched it for a while either. Since I never coughed up the cash for the DVDs, maybe when you get to season four I'll dust off the VHS and join you. Obviously, I can't be the dissenting opinion. :)
     
  9. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I was starting to wonder about that. You both started posting about the same time PLUS you're never in the same post at once. Hmmm.....

    ;)
     
  10. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    We're also the same age and have a dislike/hatred of Katy Perry. I'm seriously beginning to worry about my individuality. :eek:
     
  11. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You will be one with the Collective. Resistance is and forever shall be futile. :borg:
     
  12. PolloCaballo

    PolloCaballo Ensign Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I know I'm a little late to the Kes discussion, but I just wanted to offer the following point of view on the "If I'm ever going to have a child it has to be now!" quote. From the very first time I saw this ep, I always took that to mean if she ever wants to have children she has to conceive the first time she ovulates.

    I never thought the story was trying to tell us she could only have one child in her lifetime. I took it to mean that if she wants to continue to have children in the future, she needs to conceive the first time her body allows for that possibility, otherwise, her body would shut down and go menopausal.


    Such a physiological restriction on breeding is not that outlandish of a concept. Un-neutered female ferrets, for example, must conceive on their first heat. If they don't, they will contract aplastic anemia and die.

    It would make sense that such a short-lived species would have this biological rule. I'll turn everyone's attention to horse breeding for a moment. I know a horse breeder whose 28 and 30 year old mares turned out healthy fat foals this year with nary a problem (In human years, think of these mares as being 80+ years old). Why are these pregnancies considered relatively risk free? Because these mare's bodies have been conditioned to give birth. Year after year they have produced healthy foals for decades.

    Conversely, would any breeder ever dare think to breed a maiden mare for her first time at age 28? Of course not! You might as well dig the hole now, because it's unlikely mare or foal will survive parturition. Not to mention the fact that such a mare probably stopped ovulating years ago.

    If four years old is considered middle age for an Ocampa, it makes sense that the BPTB (biological powers that be) would decide that was a good turning point in that Ocampa's life. If there are no eligible mates by 4 years of age . . . well, then it's probably not a good idea someone slated to die at age 9 have her first child at six, seven, eight years of age. But if you've already had a child at 4, that older child can help raise your younger children, and provide a family support structure after you've died at age 9 (which I agree is stupidly short lifespan). If you had your first and perhaps, only, child much later than age 4, that child would be family-less relatively early in life.

    Has any fan ever confirmed that the writers actually meant Ocampa to only have one child each? Because I am really quite surprised to see you all accepting that as what they intended. As I previously stated, the thought never would have occurred to me to interpret it that way.
     
  13. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I thinkyou might be on to something, in that I don't think your theory is refuted in the material (though I myself could be wrong). I always thought it meant that she could only have 1 child in her lifetime, but that does seem odd in retrospect. Maybe someone will jump in here with more info. :)
     
  14. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I was just glancing at Memory Alpha and from what I saw it didn't specify that the limit existed. If it doesn't, it would certainly allow a nice 'out' for what appears to be failed logic.

    Perhaps Kes and the Ocampa reproductive system deserve their own thread so GodBen's doesn't get hijacked?
     
  15. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    LOL. I looked on Memory Alpha too! :lol:
     
  16. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager


    You are too much! [​IMG]
     
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    We try. :borg:
     
  18. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Twisted (**)

    You may remember the other day when I said that it doesn't matter if an episode makes huge scientific and logical flaws if it is entertaining. Well half of this episode follows that rule and the other half does not.

    The first half where the crew is getting lost and unable to make their way to the bridge is fun and I found myself really liking the cast interactions because they did some cast pairing which we haven't seen much of up til now; Harry and the Doctor, Tom and B'Elanna, Chakotay and Neelix. Fun is had by all.

    Then Janeway falls into the tunnel of stretching and everything begins to fall apart. Once the episode stops being fun I started asking more logical questions. Why did Tuvok leave a red-shirt in charge of the bridge in the middle of a crisis? If the ship is twisting how come rooms are moving about with no evidence of twisting? How come the holodeck wont shut off? What does Kes see in Neelix?

    Then there is that scene where they all stand there waiting for the wobbly wall to hit them, and some of that dialogue was painful. However nothing can be as bad as the final scene on the bridge where Janeway says "Maybe it was just trying to say hello". That physically hurt my brain.

    Another episode which could have been done on TNG.
     
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I remember being very bored by this episode, except for the character moments you mention. It really was a TNG 2.0 plot. The episode might have been much better had the whole point of the 'anomaly' (episode) actually been the character development between the unusual pairings, then the thin plot wouldn't have been so noticeable.

    VGR seems to be having this problem a lot so far - thinking that a boring plot device is actually an entertaining plot, whereas the entertaining part is what happens to the crew because of it.

    And yes, Kate tried her damnedest with that line, and yet, it was still a bad line.
     
  20. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    My feelings exactly. It's not unwatchable. But it's not good.

    And it's one of those episodes that could have taken place on Next Gen, and while that's not a bad thing per say, sometimes episodes of Trek feel very generic, and I respect them more when they embrace their own identity; when they can only be set on whichever series is telling the story. It's those kinds of stories that...justify (to a certain extent) the series that they're told on. Or maybe that's just me?