A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    A couple of quick notes since I agree with TheGodBen so long as he avoids his racist diatribes. ;)

    I disliked "Nightingale" for being boring and predictable, but two other side things annoyed the crap out of me in the episode.

    1) The obvious re-use of the Federation fighters for the Nightingale - and I do mean obvious. DS9 had so many on screen in the later seasons, how were we supposed to not notice?

    2) Voyager is performing unassisted maintenance on the warp coils. Now, I'd say this is a good thing taken by itself - actual maintenance shown on screen! Holy crap. However, if you go back and read just how delicate the warp coils are supposed to be (at least according to the TNG) tech manual, hauling them out with shuttles on the surface of a dirty planetary environment to do who-knows-what makes little sense to me. I know, you can get around this a number of ways, but I still found it distractingly disbelievable.

    Now you're speaking my language, sir. :rommie:

    There was an excellent issue of DC's TOS comic series in the late nineties that basically had a plot like this (but in TOS.) The Enterprise bumped into a Romulan D7 and fought them, ultimately resulting in both ships being crippled, at which time the Enterprise realized that the reason for the fight (an attack on a nearby Fed base) was actually caused by a third party. Long story short, the Romulans and Enterprise banded together to try to repair their ships and survive, but the Romulans were initially working against the Enterprise. Only the engines of the Enterprise work and only the weapons of the D7 work. Ultimately, the third party shows up to attack both of them, and the Romulans go down in a blaze of glory and take the third party with them, leaving Kirk to wonder if it was an accidental destruction, or a sacrifice to save their grudging allies.

    And this was a comic book, kids. :cool:

    Yay, brother.

    Ditto. I shall henceforth call you Godfrey.

    And, "The Void" was a good idea, but, like you were getting at, super rushed.

    :rommie:

    I didn't like "Workforce" nearly as much as you, Godfrey. Therefore, I picked it apart. The derelict Voyager found in space had been done before ("Macrocosm"), the aliens needing slave labor angle seemed like a forced deus ex machina, and I didn't really care about Janeway's alien boyfriend. Had the episode focused more on the idea of what the crew would have been like freed of their desire to go home or their obligations to Starfleet and whoever else, I might have been much more interested. As such, I found it annoying.

    Also, the recycled Breen ships distracted me.

    Agreed.

    I lol'd. At both. ;)

    Generally agreed, but I did think Keegan de Lancie was shag-worthy, despite disliking Q2 the character for the most part.

    Where oh where was the Keegan de Lancie/Manu Intiraymi make out bonanza that this episode so desperately needed? :scream:

    They were distracted by all the sexual tension between Q2 and Icheb. :shifty:

    (By the way, just who the hell were the Pelosians, Baezians, or Chenari? Were those names actually in the dialog, because if so, would it have killed them to use at least one real TOS alien race name?)

    Generous of you. I only liked the first part of this episode, really. The holodeck rights thing always, always, always struck me as too derivative of Data's "Measure of a Man" arc. If they wanted to continue that type of exploration with the Doc that's fine, but it got to the point of overkill.

    Spot on my man. Spot. On.

    Good lord, I had to look this one up. And yes, I hated it.
     
  2. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ Who are you again? :p

    Well they did change the colour and made it bigger, but it was very obvious, yes.

    I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that one. John de Lancie maybe, but only in the Q-judge costume.

    I'd give the episode a pass on those because they were apparently towards the end of the five-year mission and we only saw the first three years. They could have referenced some aliens from TAS, but that would add weight to the idea that that show should be part of the canon, which it should not.

    I'm a very generous person, but only on very rare occasions. :)


    Homestead (***½)

    I know that some people have objections to Neelix leaving before Voyager reached Earth, but to me is makes a lot of sense. Neelix was never on Voyager to get to Earth, he joined the ship because he saw an opportunity for a better life than scrounging for scrap and he stayed because he made a life for himself. But I always wondered just what he was planning to do once he got to Earth, so having him meet a group of Talaxians and having that trigger in him a desire to be with his own kind works fine for me.

    What are Talaxians doing 40,000 light-years from Talax? And how did Voyager manage to stumble across them one day? Valid questions, but I'm willing to ignore them as necessary contrivances for the story.

    The episode is a bit slow in places and I don't like Janeway breaking the PD because she's "just helping a friend", as if that's a good excuse to give to a judge. But what this episode does well is serve as a good send-off for Neelix and if an episode can make me feel sad about Neelix leaving, then it must be doing something right. So I'll stick with my tradition of awarding Neelix episodes three and a half stars.


    And then there were two.
     
  3. Thor Damar

    Thor Damar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Have you already reviewed Nothing Human? That's one VGR episode that I have very strong opinion on...
     
  4. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Yep, that one was a while back. Handy link to TheGodBen's review: http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3095206&postcount=1842
     
  5. ronny

    ronny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    And in spite of that the author still managed to turn out one of the best Voyager books in years... :)
     
  6. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Not that there was much competition, considering how bad most of the Voyager books have been (in my humble opinion of course). But I actually did enjoy the new book, most of it anyway. I just really hate that particular part of it.
     
  7. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    If you're going to work AND do the Master's degree I can tell you from personal experience it's going to be longer. Gee, it's not really going to be the same around here without you! ;)
     
  8. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I've been training a chimp to type as my replacement, but he was too good. I'm trying out a poodle at the moment but I'm not sure if he'll ready by the time I'm finished. :(


    Renaissance Man (**)

    I'm fairly certain that should be the other way around. If Janeway dies then morale will drop, but Chakotay has proved himself to be a competent commander during the times when Janeway was away and should be ready to step up the the plate. If the ship doesn't have a warp core then they're dead in space with only reserve power and they have no replacement available. Poor Chakotay, even Doctor Shmully forgot about him. :(

    I was quite pleased with the ending for Shmully's character-arc in Author Author, so it works against this episode that his story now has this additional coda which doesn't make much sense. There's some fun to be had as various actors play Shmully, and the chase sequence has some fun moments, but ultimately there is not much to this episode. I found the worst part to be the two Hierarchy villains who fit perfectly into the "stupid evil" template and the "stupid good" template. And once again this season Janeway refuses to punish Shmully for his actions.

    One thing I found telling was during the confession scene as Shmully thought he was going to die; all but one of his confessions was made up purely for that scene. His keeping a record of Janeway's questionable actions, his not liking Kim's saxophone playing, and his revealing of Tuvok's space gonorrhoea didn't mean anything, the only thing with weight was his confession of love to Seven. It made me think back to the end of Scrubs' first season as Jordan revealed to the group the various secrets and rivalries which had built up over the year, I prefer that scene.


    I forgot to count the shuttle lost in Natural Law, I believe this is the last one.

    Shuttles Lost: 16


    [​IMG]
     
  9. rahullak

    rahullak Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    And now for the Grand Finale.....may it be your best ever Voyager review GodBen! :techman:
     
  10. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    GodBen asked me to post his review for him.

    EndGame (*)
    :wtf:

    Thank you for reading my reviews! :techman:

    ;)
     
  11. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I say he surprises us all and gives it five stars.
     
  12. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    My bet is on him noticing we are making predictions for his last review, so he sells his computer and moves to Zanzibar before posting his last review.
     
  13. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Endgame

    I typically make it a point to stick to the episode and my own personal thoughts when it comes to writing a review, ignoring much the chatter that happens apart from that, because why make my review about everyone else's opinion? But over the last 8 years Star Trek forums across the internet have expressed a wide range of opinions about Endgame, from those that absolutely loathed it to those who thought it was okay. There are a lot of great points out there, both against and less against the finale. It proves that Endgame is a controversial ending to the series, to the say the least.

    And what I've found, to my dismay, is that I can't form a basis for what the "right" review to Voyager's ending is. This review couldn't possibly satisfy everyone. Half the audience is going to slightly disagree with my take on the episode.

    So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm going to offer up a twist bigger than any of Voyager's over its seven seasons. I'm going to go straight out of here by employing the Sopranos route for the finale for TheGodBen's Hater Reviews™. I'm going to do what Samantha Wildman did. I'm going to wink out of existence -- cut to black -- and let all of you make up your own damned minds.

    Because that's ultimately what this finale is about. Making up your own mind. No amount of my synopsis or opinion or recapping or criticising/criticising slightly less makes a difference. It's a work of fictional art, and it's up to you, the viewer, to render your verdict in the court of public opinion.

    Which you've already done via the comments on this forum. I'd like to thank you for writing the review for me, and I mean that sincerely. The quality of comments in here is adequate. It's been a hell of a ride. My only regret is that I didn't let you guys write all these reviews sooner, it could have saved me a lot of time.

    If you had told me before Endgame that my review would have no star rating, I'd have called you crazy. But there it is. Voyager's finale is about everyone's ability to forgive what the episode did (or didn't do). It's not about what I can tell you about it. So my review for Endgame is also going to be about you, and not me. I think that's the most fitting way that I can end TheGodBen's Hater Reviews™: By turning it over to all of you.

    I'll just leave you with some final words as I close the book on Voyager, which you must read aloud in the voice of Tim Russ' Commander Tuvok:

    Damn dawg, you've been played!

    Hang on, this is September 1st? Aww bugger, I thought it was April. :(


    I'd never say "thank you". :p
     
  14. Colonel Green

    Colonel Green Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    YOU BASTARD

    I've been lurking in this thread for MONTHS, and THIS is how you repay my quiet loyalty?!

    If there is any fairness in the universe, your personal hell with bare a striking resemblence to Fair Haven.
     
  15. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I was going to write an angry rant myself, but Colonel Green already said everything I wanted to say.
     
  16. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    0 stars for "Endgame". Works for me!
     
  17. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Time has actually tempered my view on Endgame--much in the same way it did with the series itself. Once your initial expectations are dashed and you can go back and readjust your expectations accordingly knowing exactly what you are getting going in, it comes across less as a lacklustre series finale and more of an entertaining two hour action telefilm.

    One of the biggest disappointments about the sendoff was the way it failed to take advantage of the earlier set-up sprinkled throughout the show. Instead of masterfully weaving together numerous threads the way DS9 did with the Final Chapter it saved everything for these last two hours and created new plot elements when it really wasn't necessary.

    Did they bother to bring back in Unimatrix Zero? No. Did they bring back Sispiria? No. Did they have the Pathfinder Project play a role in returning? No. Rather they created all new standalone elements which is disappointing knowing there would be no payoff from what came before. Barclay was wasted. Admiral Paris was wasted.

    Also Trek series have this odd need to create a romance in the final season. TNG had Worf/Troi, DS9 had Ezri/Julian and here we get Chakotay/Seven. C/7 was the worst(none of them were that necessary or compelling compared to say Scully and Mulder). These two had very little in the way of significant interaction in four years. Not to mention Chakotay was an uninteresting player and the romance was an abrupt late-in-the-game idea that it simply didn't work.

    And after seven years on waiting for the Doc to receive a name all we get is Joe. I see what the writers were going for but it didn't work. And to take the name of his wife's father is bizarre.

    This really was the final nail in the Borg with the Queen actually arguing with the Collective(I thought they were one mind) and the idea that the Borg hadn't assimilated Voyager for the last four years because she didn't want to upset Seven. Really, on one hand you have to appreciate Biller trying to at least provide a reason but this wasn't that inventive of one. What is so special about Seven? She is no different than any other drone.

    I was hoping they would destroy them once and for all. Unfortunately they clearly couldn't bare the thought of not having the Borg still out there to bring in when the ratings demanded it. Instead we got an ambiguous bit of wiggle room for a possible return.

    It was nice to see Alice Krige return as the Queen. I always found her Queen to be such a jarring contrast to what the Borg are suppose to be but there is no denying that Krige's performance--the way she slinks, her delivery--is intriguing to watch despite it lacking a sense that she is Borg.

    Kate Mulgrew gave a great performance as Admiral Janeway.

    The time travel was disappointing. I don't mind its use as long as it is employed in an interesting fashion. I was also disappointed with the lack of more satisfying character arc resolutions like we had on DS9 although part of the problem was due to the fact that most of the characters had no arc to begin with so I could see how trying to decide where to leave them might have proven a most difficult task. And no homecoming? no resolution for Icheb or good bye? no interaction between Paris and his dad? no maquis fallout? no adjusting to life after returning?

    Even with all the complaints I still kinda enjoy it--partly because it is semi-entertaining, partly because of the nostalgia I feel for the show even moreso after the pretty empty new feature film. And it did have some occasional nice character moments like the one between Admiral Janeway and Tuvok. But you could pretty much tell the writers' hearts just weren't in it and were ready to move on to other things like ENTERPRISE.
     
  18. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ENDGAME (***)
    I give it three stars. Was it a top notch send off? Nope. But it was pretty entertaining.

    Positives: The Borg, the future glimpses of the crew, Admiral Janeway and the Queen, good SFX
    Negatives: the forced C/7 romance, mucking with the timeline, God mode Voyager, no Suspiria, they got home

    A really good finale would have tied back into Suspiria and the Caretaker. I never thought we had seen the last of her and it would have been cool to finally get some back story as to what this race is and their purpose in the galaxy. Kes could have returned, maybe with a warning to the VOY crew about Suspiria and some evil thing she is doing to another race like the Ocampa who need help. VOY attempts to help, Suspiria beats the hell out of them, maybe cripples Voyager forcing them to land on a planet and settle down for a time while devising a plan to get rid of her. Kes is there helping. In the end we get a Kes vs Suspiria smackdown. Kes wins and is able to send the crippled Voyager home. Then we get the reunions that everybody seems to have wanted etc etc. THE END
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I neglected to realise that not everybody here watched BSG, and fewer still read Jammer's reviews, and only a small number of that minority remember his April Fools Day joke about the BSG finale. I should probably stop copying the guy. :alienblush:

    Suffice it to say that is not my full review, I haven't even watched Endgame yet.
     
  20. rahullak

    rahullak Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Classic Godben. You never know what he's upto...or do you?