A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I didn't consider that but you're right...
     
  2. kes7

    kes7 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I never understood whey they didn't close off her area of the Cargo Bay and turn it into quarters for her. Or even better, move the damn alcove into an actual residential room, if that was possible. Or she could have adapted her neural transceiver the same way she did Icheb's when he was going to go live on Brunali, so she could also have a nice little portable regenerator and some quarters of her own.

    I mean, maybe this wouldn't have been a good idea right away, but certainly once she'd been there for years and proved herself a valued member of the crew! I started to think Janeway just got off on watching her sleep. (And I'm so not a J/7 kind of girl, but the way she would just barge in there without knocking when Seven was regenerating was a little sketchy.)
     
  3. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It may be interesting that Seven didn't consider herself worthy of quarters until she was "fully human" but that concept was wrapped up in an awful episode.

    Did Seven request quarters and get turned down?
    Was Seven offered quarters and turned them down?
    Are there technical/medical reasons quarters were never on the table?

    A few throwaway lines in ANY episode could have resolved that burning question without subjecting us to "Human Error". Unfortunately, this episode brings up some other disturbing questions:

    Why is holo-addiction ok when it's Seven but not ok when it's Barclay?

    What are the ethical ramifications of using another crew member's hologram for personal uses?

    No punishment for Seven abandoning her post? Hello?

    The emotional dampener: Gee, all this human development going on for Seven and she never noticed her emotions were being dampened? If the dampener was not with her all her years on Voyager but was part of Icheb's cortical node how could she not notice the difference afterwards?

    Sorry, this episode is so problematic that any "interesting" questions brought up during it just get buried in the sludge.
     
  4. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Good points, Kim. I always assumed that she was stuck in the cargo bay because she was so depenedent on the regeneration alcove. Remember that the equipment was installed by the Borg, not by the crew, and so may not have been easily moved to private quarters. And she didn't seem all that interested in socializing, did she? When she took over the Borg kids, someone had to tell her to program in "recreation time."
     
  5. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager


    Even if it couldn't be moved, they could have made the area more private for her.

    She certainly complained when the Doctor barged in--and that was season 5.

    As for socializing--are you arguing that someone who keeps to herself doesn't deserve to have privacy? Else, I'm not sure what one has to do with another...

    And to kes7, yeah, I found how Janeway just invited herself in rather sketchy, too.
     
  6. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Well, sorry, but I disagree.
     
  7. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I find it very strange that the emotional dampener only works when strong emotions are felt, because if I was the queen andI wanted to prevent drones from escaping, I'd have it activate at the slightest bit of emotion.
     
  8. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I always wondered if the strong emotion that was dampened was actually sexual arousal, which seemed to be what short-circuited her brain in "Human Error." If it was sexual arousal that was the problem, it is easier to see why previous strong emotions she experienced (such as the grief she felt when One died) didn't bring about the same result.
     
  9. kes7

    kes7 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    But that makes no sense in-story -- drones would be a lot less likely to cause trouble with sexual arousal than with, say, strong remorse or grief. Also, she collapsed when they were fighting, and she looked pretty upset. If that was sexual arousal, I'm not sure what that says about Seven. I'm not saying that's not what the writers of that episode intended, but it doesn't add up for me.

    I personally lean toward the fanwank theory that it was part of Icheb's original programming, but not Seven's. But there are some inconsistencies with that, as well. So, pretty much, I think it's just sloppy writing.
     
  10. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Shhhh! :eek: Don't disagree with the moderators! It makes them angry and they start recklessly flinging lightning bolts around the place. Innocent people (and largely guilty people like me) might get hit in the crossfire.

    Human Error seems to have finally sparked some life into the place, so don't mind me, feel free to continue your discussion. :)


    Q2 (*)

    [​IMG]

    :guffaw: Okay, I've got to admit, that's pretty funny. I'll give that a point.

    Watching this episode inspired me to make this video, so if you've got 7 minutes please check it out and revel in some of the best scene's TNG had to offer.

    If you watched the video then you probably know what my point is going to be; Q is at his best when he is teaching humanity something rather than the other way around. Q was at his worst on TNG during season 1, back when it was the humans teaching him lessons, the only exception to this rule (the exception that proves it ;)) is Deja Q. But that's just another one of the problems with Q2, isn't it? That it is a rehash of Deja Q where the comic skills of John de Lancie and Brent Spiner are replaced with Keegan de Lancie and Manu Intiraymi, which is a bit of a step down.

    (As for Q-Less, Q just seemed to sit around for most of that episode, there didn't seem to be a point for him being there at all. :wtf:)

    So, the plot is stolen, the comedy doesn't work, and it returns to an interpretation of the Q that I don't like.

    Makes sense. When I was going out with my old English girlfriend I forced her to apologise for the occupation of Ireland, because random citizens are authorised to apologise for the actions of the state. President McAlesse was very impressed with my actions, she gave me a medal. :)

    I don't know why he was punished for that, I think that Q Junior should be given a commendation for original thinking. But then again, I guess I can't expect Janeway or Q Jr to know much about James T. Kirk.

    Fifteen minutes earlier:
    Oh yeah, they listened to an extremely detailed report about Kirk's life earlier in the episode. You'd think they would have remembered the Kobayashi Maru thing, it does tend to stick out.

    Friendship, gratefulness, compassion... a good example, I would say. You could at least warn Janeway not to beam Lt Carey down to that planet, the guy has a wife and kids back home and his death is meaningless, so where's the harm? I know, I know, "bloody nose" and all that, but she did save your son from being turned into an amoeba.
     
  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'm watching your video, and just started, but I love Tapestry. Awesome Awesome episode.
     
  12. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Your girlfriend is malt liquor? :p
     
  13. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Yeah. It was while they were fighting--about whether to continue their relationship or not. Mea culpa. :(
     
  14. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    She was more of an Irish cream sort of girl.

    Edit: Wait, no, that's not what I meant! She genuinely liked Irish cream liqueur.
     
  15. Mareika

    Mareika Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Disagree. I know it`s only my opinion, but I always found it very entertaining to watch Chakotay and Seven together. For me it`s a absolutely understandable reaction that Seven falled in love with Chakotay. I like the scenes with both of them.
    And I also liked all the other scenes where we see Seven interacting with the cast.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  16. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Author, Author (*****)

    :wtf: I'm surprised too, I remembered disliking this episode.

    The episode starts out by taking a comical look at a Living Witness style Voyager, and I must admit that I found this to be quite enjoyable. Janew-... sorry, Jenkins shooting a patient in cold blood, En Kimble the hypochondriac and Lt Marseilles the porn-star, good fun is had by all. :) And the best part is that I actually found myself relating and understanding both sides of the argument, Shmully was clearly being stubbourn but that's just his way, and he was bringing up some valid points. The idea that he views his mobile emmiter as a giant burden he must carry with him everywhere is interesting, and it is something I had not considered before. Tom's method of getting his point across is not only a perfect way to deflate Shmully's ego, it is also very much in character for Tom.

    Then comes the second half of the episode which works as Voyager's version of Measure of a Man but with a copyright twist, and Shmully sees himself as fighting for his people rather than just for himself. While the courtroom scenes were a little rushed, it is probably best that it is kept that way so as not to hold back the energy this episode has, and there is no need to go into detail proving that Shmully is a person because the audience is already well aware that he is. The ending also works very well, Shmully doesn't make legal history by having all holograms defined as people, or even himself, but he does win a small victory and opens the doors for those future debates. This is how civil rights are won in the real world, you keep making small victories until equality becomes the norm.

    I was also pleased with the scenes of the Voyager crew having conversations with family members back on Earth, they proved quite effective. I know that Voyager isn't going to have a proper finale with these important character reunions, but at least I get to see what they might have been like here. Even Harry Kim gets a good scene.

    So, does the episode deserve five stars? Maybe not, but I've not seen a more suitable candidate since Living Witness; I came away from this episode having enjoyed it and with surprisingly few qualms. I could deduct a point for being derivative of Measure of a Man, but instead I'll give it a pass. Consider it my parting gift to Voyager. ;)
     
  17. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Loved Author Author up until the final scene.

    I know showing the other EMH Mark 1's doing manual label was a followup to Lifeline and a nice bit of continuity to throw in.

    But that scene really bothers me. 1st, doesn't Starfleet have anything better to do with these guys?

    Also I don't really get why they would even be interested in the Doctor's story. These are "out of the box" EMH's, that have been reprogrammed to do manual labor. They haven't had the Doctor's experiences. Their reaction on seeing the story should be "Interesting. If you're through wasting my time, please state the location where you'd like me to dig next"

    This is another annoying reference to the idea that the Doctor was "alive" from the very beginning, which I just don't believe at all.
     
  18. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It took them seven damn years but they finally shut Neelix up.
    Q2 gets ****1/2 stars for this scene alone.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Author, Author is probably what I consider the last gem of Voyager's run. Granted, I'm biased since I aspire to be a writer myself, but still. I agree entirely with TheGodBen's analysis. Shame they didn't call this the Doctor's final focus episode and gave us Renaissance Man as one more 'spotlight' episode for him...
     
  20. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Agreed. It was very good. There is another enjoyable episode still coming, though (Rennaissance Man).
     

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