A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    As we all know, the Borg Baby became an important member of The Torpedo and Shuttle Building Team which was lead by Lt.Carey and included cewmembers like Rollins, Dalby, Henley, Gerron and Chell. Later on Vorik, Samantha Wildman, the Borg Baby and the Equinox crewmembers.
     
  2. NumberSix

    NumberSix Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ LOL. Finally, it makes sense.

    The borg baby thing annoyed me. It still annoys me.

    But you know what annoyed me more? The next episode GodBen has to watch...
     
  3. Frazzled

    Frazzled Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    The mess hall
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The whole thing of the Borg Kids arguing with First makes no sense at all. They're behaving too much like individuals. They should have been in a mind linked collective like the three in Survival Instinct, hearing each other's thoughts to the point that they get muddled which is their own.
     
  4. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Location:
    England, UK
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Erm...child labour laws? :P
     
  5. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I remember reading that in a deleted scene we would have learned that the virus that had killed off the Borg adults had infected the vessel's vinculum and their link was breaking down hence the emotional attitudes. In fact I saw a still of them hovering around the vinculum as it is losing power.

    I always thought "Collective" should have been a tad creepier and more a Children of the Corn type episode. We really didn't see the horrors of what being assimilated would be like for the kids.
     
  6. Square

    Square Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Location:
    Currently stationed in Little Rock, AR.
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The Borg kids? They sucked.

    By the time Season 6 and Season 7 rolled around, I had pretty much had it with the neverending question of whether a former Borg could ever truly regain their individuality. Between, "Unity," "Drone," "Infinite Regress," "Survival Instinct," Child's Play," "Collective," "Dark Frontier," et. al. and Seven's ongoing story arc, I was more than ready to move on. In the later seasons, I think some of those episodes concerning Borg brats and errant drones could've been better spent dealing with the fallout from "Equinox." Besides, I didn't like watching the "genius child" Wesley Crusher, and my enjoyment was not increased by Icheb, Borg implants nonwithstanding.

    Golly, can a Borg ever really reclaim their life from The Collective??? Will we ever truly know! Oh, dearie me!

    I. Don't. Care.
     
  7. Furtados_Feet

    Furtados_Feet Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    3 and a half stars!?
    What the hell!? "Collective" was almost as cringeworthy and bad as DS9's "Valiant".
     
  8. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    At least Valiant had an appropriate ending. The ending alone brings that episode up to at least 3 stars on GodBen's scale. :techman:
     
  9. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    3½, maybe a 4. I liked Valiant, it was about a bunch of annoying and vainglorious buffoons getting what was coming to them, and I find very little more enjoyable than watching a bunch of punk kids failing. My biggest complaints about it are the horrible score and the fact that the only escape pod to be recovered contained Jake and Nog.
     
  10. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Agreed 100%
    I'm not sure if we're supposed to feel sorry for them or not. I cheered when Cadet Waters got his. I guess I did feel sorry at one part of the episode. The destruction of the Valiant. Poor ship didn't deserve that. :(
     
  11. Furtados_Feet

    Furtados_Feet Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The squash faced girl survived.
    The fact that you'd give "Valiant" a 4 star makes me question your taste even further.
     
  12. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I remember when they hit their target and there was a big explosion and everyone started to cheer, a little piece of me died. "Oh no, not another episode where we're told we can do whatever we put our mind to." :rolleyes: But then the Dominion ship rose out of the explosion and annihilated the poor Valiant, and that made me feel better about setting my life-goals so low. :)

    I guess not, but I couldn't help myself:

    [​IMG]


    Dark Images (*½)

    The episode started out quite well, Kes goes a little insane and forgets who she is so she has to be brought to sickbay. The scene where Neelix shows up and realises that he still loves Kes was quite moving, and his determination to stay with her and devote himself to finding out what is wrong with her was very well handled. It's good when his character is treated seriously.

    Things start going wrong when we find out that Kes' ailment is caused by a nest of giant space bees inside her stomach, but then they escape her body and start to spread around the ship. The episode goes from bad to worse when the bees infect the holodeck and form a new nest inside the Fair Haven program, so Tom, Harry and Janeway have to enter the program and work with the locals to kill the bees. They manage to jury-rig a fire-truck into spraying out a stream of quantum-malengular positrons (an orange light) that will kill the bees, so they drive around Fair Haven killing bees as though they were the Ghostbusters.

    I don't know why Joe Menosky decided to take the episode in this bizarre direction, I guess this was one of his high-concept stories that got a little out of control.

    Yes, I've started to have dreams about reviewing episodes of Voyager. :lol:
     
  13. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I think I'd prefer that episode to the disaster that is the next one. Voyager meets Ghostbusters against killer bees sounds far more interesting than what we got.
     
  14. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    And frak me if I'm not more behind now! :scream:

    I hate it when you're right - i.e. pretty much always! :p

    On this topic of babble, I think there's a thin line between what the TOS writer's guide called "jargon" and made-up stuff that doesn't do anything. I think the examples that GodBen cited are borderline babble but read to me more like jargon, because while we may not fully understand it, it's simple enough that we can get an idea off what's going on. Still, it's best to say things like that simply - and realistically - at the same time.

    Now, if they were talking about repolarizing the deflector grid and diverting auxiliary power to the lateral EPS array, that's full-on babble to me.

    Agreed there. It doesn't have to involve Seven to be good, dang it! :scream:

    In fact, sometimes if it's about her, it still isn't good:

    Dead-on. The episode really makes it seem like there are a bunch of unexplained inconsistencies to make it seem possible that there was a conspiracy, and then expects us to go "no, there wasn't really" at the end?

    Agreed there, too. Not much to add, in fact. :p

    Absolutely brilliantly put, sir. I am of Irish ancestry myself, and despite not knowing nearly as much as you do, this episode and "Spirit Folk" always felt like insulting utter wastes of time, in every way possible, to say nothing of the drama of Janeway's holographic boyfriend. Geez. :rolleyes:

    Totally agreed there, too.

    Bah, foiled again! :rommie:

    You've totally summed up my love/hate relationship with this episode, and the Doc in general. I hated how in later episodes he seemed to become irksome simply to be irksome. I'm all for the exploration of the nature of artificial life if there's something to be gained from it, but I never really felt like anything was gained from it.

    They're the shuttle-building team, obviously. :rommie:

    Yes, I can has moar? I really did enjoy this ep.

    Okay, so I may get my nerd card revoked for this, but here goes.

    I actually watched "professional wrestling" (yes, I know, it's fake) with my dad up through my teen years, so I knew who the Rock was. And it was everso painfully obvious that his cameo was designed to get wrestling fans to watch VGR by presenting VGR as some kind of action show.

    That said, they almost made an interseting episode despite it.

    Yes, exactly. :techman:

    Holy. Crap. Really?

    Agreed overall on that one. I was very surprised how much I liked this episode when it first aired.

    Awesome. :rommie:

    Now I'm a little worried about you, pal. Been reading too many badmovies.org reviews?
     
  15. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    Thee Olde Spook Shack
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ I think we all knew that he was going to snap eventually.

    Fair haven could push anybody over the edge.
     
  16. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    So you're suggesting I should become a writer? ;)

    I'm afraid it is never going to end, I'm always going to be right. :p

    You're not one of those members of the diaspora that proudly proclaims themselves to be Irish while not knowing what they're talking about, supporting the IRA and emailing real Irish people to ask if they know the Kelly family that they're distantly related to... are you? :scream:

    Oh dear, I don't know if we can be friends anymore. ;)

    I haven't snapped yet. I may have had a dream about watching a really bad episode of Voyager, but I could still tell that it was a bad episode! If I was to have a dream about a bad episode of Voyager and reviewed it with an excellent score then I'd have snapped.


    Spirit Folk (If I ever meet Bryan Fuller I am going to knee him in the gonads)

    The rules state I'm not allowed to give minus scores, but they say nothing about issuing threats against the writers. You can take that as a 0.

    Potatoes? Rotten? In Ireland? In 1846? Say it ain't so! :eek:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland):
    Oh right, that pesky potato famine that killed a million people. :alienblush: Hmm, you'd think the people of Fair Haven would remember that.

    Lets consult our map again, shall we? :)

    [​IMG]

    We've already determined that Fair Haven is most likely in County Galway, in which case Meath (NW of Dublin) is not down at all. The word Bryan Fuller was looking for is "over".

    Between 1871 and 1901 the population of Clare ranged between 147,864 and 112,334. So yes, Michael has a lot of friends. At least 5,000 in Clare alone, I'd reckon.

    Ah, good old Janeway, displaying the magnificent captaining skills that make her the least popular captain on this board. (And before you ask, I voted for Pine's Kirk because I like Janeway half the time.)

    Why is it that when historical European holo-characters come into contact with 24th century technology they think that they're in America? (Another example is the da Vinci hologram in Concerning Flight.) Far be it from me to be the one who defends the reputation of the British Empire, but they were nothing too shabby during the later half of the 19th century. They were one of the most advanced civilisations of the age, and while rural Ireland was by no means enjoying the fruits of this advanced technology it wouldn't have been a complete paradigm shift.


    Okay, the Fair Haven episodes are now behind me, I can no longer look forward with dread. :)
     
  17. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Pyxis Unity
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I was never really a huge fan of "Pathfinder." Barclay did work well to an extent on VOY, but having him have a huge relapse didn't really seem to accomplish anything. Barclay works when it's shown he's smart if a little neurotic at times, and not just a lonely guy who only gets entertainment from his fantasies.
     
  18. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Location:
    European Union
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    You nearly fooled me. I missed several episodes of the later seasons and I really wondered whether I missed that one for a moment. :lol:
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Ashes to Ashes (*)

    Ensign Ballard, how I missed her! :hugegrin: She was a great character back in the early seasons, her interactions with Harry were very memorable and her death was one of the most emotional moments of the show. I remember that she and Harry were Best Friends Forever at the academy and they both ended up on Voyager so that Harry wouldn't be relying upon the friendship of a criminal like Tom Paris. Harry was in love with her all that time, of course, so that means his engagement to Libby was a sham because he was too much of a pussy to ask out the girl he really liked. But that's par for the course for our Harry. :)

    Word to the wise, don't let the noob write an episode where he retcons in a character, he'll mess things up.

    I wonder what lesson Seven is going to learn today?

    Perhaps she'll learn that she needs companionship?

    Perhaps she'll learn to put some faith in her instincts?

    Damn right! Who cares how much Seven screws up a bunch a children's lives? She needs to learn a lesson, godsdamnit!

    :guffaw:

    [​IMG]

    REPLICATORS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

    Hot damn, this episode might just have a purpose! :eek:

    Ah, bugger. :(

    Dagnabbit, why does he get the ladies and I don't? :( We're both annoying, reserved, pathetic and nerdy, and I'm not that unattractive.

    Oh, she's going to learn the importance of fun? I totally did not see that coming.

    This was an interesting race, why does the show have to go the "evil" threat route with them? :(

    Maybe that's because you're NOT FUNNY! :angryrazz:

    Come on, what does she see in this guy?! He doesn't even have the funny thing going for him. I've got the funny thing going for me! :(


    Minus half a star for being a TNG episode.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  20. Dane_Whitman

    Dane_Whitman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Dinner to bug.
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It just so happens I watched this episode tonight. The retconning really hurts the episode but I kinda like Ashes to Ashes, mostly because of the good work of the gorgeous guest actress. It made me wish Ensign Ballard had been the recurring character this episode made her out to be. Her line "Did he include your pot roast?" and the way she said it had me laughing for a good two minutes.

    The rigid interaction of the Borg children also put a smile on my face. One thing VOY did well was its children, something both TOS and TNG handled terribly.