A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Perhaps you now understand why I hate "Tattoo" so much, particularly when it comes to historical blindness...

    At least "Fair Haven" was a holodeck program. "Tattoo" made me not fully human.

    And you gave that drivel 2-1/2 stars. :p
     
  2. Cyrus

    Cyrus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    If I was in charge of VOY then episodes such as "Fair haven" & "Spirit Folk" wouldn't be made. But I have to grudgingly admit that I enjoyed them, they were fun episodes.

    I sympathize with those that were bothered by Irish stereotypes (though I don't think it was as bad as that early TNG episode in this regard). I wish they had made the episodes without any specific ethnic group.
     
  3. Furtados_Feet

    Furtados_Feet Lieutenant

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Did you ever think that maybe Tom wanted to create a stereotypical, paradise view of Ireland? Do you think he wanted to be freedom fighting with the Irish or relaxing in a nice country town?
    Regardless of that, there wasn't ever really an excuse for a holodeck episode in Voyager.
     
  4. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    All it would have taken would have been:

    Janeway: You know Mr Paris, I have to point out that Ireland at this time was a little more, unstable, than you've portrayed it here.
    Paris: Oh I know Captain, but I just wanted this to be a little piece of rustic paradise in the Delta Quadrant.

    This.

    Voyager has severely limited energy supplies so what should be done? Keep the holodecks, massive drains on power, online 24/7.

    Bravo...
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The sad truth is that I don't know much about native Americans so I didn't feel I was in a position to judge if that episode was racist or not. But I can certainly understand why why people would find that episode so insulting, I just didn't want to make a stand on a subject I barely understand. :alienblush:

    On the subject, I read this on Wikipedia yesterday about the Irish potato famine:

    In 1847, midway through the Great Irish Famine, a group of American Indian Choctaws collected $710 and sent it to help starving Irish men, women and children. "It had been just 16 years since the Choctaw people had experienced the Trail of Tears, and they had faced starvation... It was an amazing gesture. By today's standards, it might be a million dollars." according to Judy Allen, editor of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma's newspaper, Bishinik.

    Now that's a truly meaningful gesture. :) If only the fabulously wealthy Queen Victoria had been so kind...

    In 1845, Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid declared his intention to send 10,000 sterling to Irish farmers but Queen Victoria requested that the Sultan send only 1,000 sterling, because she had sent only 2,000 sterling. The Sultan sent the 1,000 sterling but also secretly sent 3 ships full of food. The English courts tried to block the ships, but the food arrived at Drogheda harbour and was left there by Ottoman sailors.

    :wtf: Now you know why I dislike the British monarchy.

    Then don't call it authentic. I would say that they shouldn't have based it during such a depressing time, but I guess Irish history is mostly depressing up until the 1990s. :lol:


    Blink of an Eye (****)

    This is easily one of the best sci-fi plot based episodes of the series, the concept is cool and the episode manages to back it up for the most part. And even though the story takes place across several days and a few centuries at the same time, the whole thing manages to be seamless.

    Two problems hold it back a little, the biggest problem is the use of Shmully. He lived three years on that planet with a partner and child, yet when Voyager beams him back up he doesn't seem to care about the family he was leaving behind? :wtf: That should be a life-changing experience for Shmully but instead he is pleased to return to Voyager and take up his old job. And just like O'Brien's experience in Hard Time, this second life is never mentioned again.

    The other problem is that this species will probably be super-advanced by the end of the week, yet we never hear from them again? It's the embodiment of episodic story-telling.
     
  6. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    When you think about it, if Voyager had just hung around nearby for a few more hours, the aliens on that planet probably could have managed to come up with a super engine that could have gotten them home. Still, I do think this was one of Voyager's better outings. Though I'm in agreement about the Doctor doesn't seem to react or care about losing a family. Then again, he already gave up on one family, back in 'Real Life.' Looks like he did it again. So the Doc is definitely not a family man. Good to know.
     
  7. LeeHutchison

    LeeHutchison Captain Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    [​IMG]

    There is more subtilty and fact in that banner at a football game about Ireland in the time Fair Haven tries to represent. It's absolutely shocking, Ireland wasn't fun and games during that time, it was famine, depression and the death of entire generations of familes. Voyager was out of touch with reality on so much, none more than with this. Dire episode!
     
  8. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Blink gets 3 stars out of 4 from me.

    It was one of those quintessential charming and comforting Trek episodes that stirred the imagination and had a nice emotional undercurrent. While things on the planet might be moving at a breakneck speed, the events back on the ship were nicely paced with time for a lot of nice quiet character moments and moments of reflection. I also appreciated the unique touch of briefly giving us the perspectives of the aliens in various time periods. It was also a clever high concept to observe the development of an entire race in the matter of days. I also liked the ensemble approach with the cast evident in this episode.

    And the resolution caught me offguard and was actually pretty fresh & inventive with the aliens rescuing the crew. Torres got in a nice dig at Chakotay too.

    This is an example of how to do a nice entertaining standalone. Even more impressive was the fact Menosky wrote it over one weekend.

    This was also an instance of where the promos made the episode erroneously look boring. And this wouldn't be the first time this season either.
     
  9. Frazzled

    Frazzled Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Nah. They were much better off getting out of there before another hostile government came to power half a day later and decided to use uber super more-advanced-than-Voyager lightning ray guns to blast them from the sky.
     
  10. Frazzled

    Frazzled Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    There's a nice chapter in the anthology 'Distant Shores' about what happened to him down there. Fab book that one - ties up loads of these really annoying loose ends.

    I agree that it was all a bit, well, rushed. Don't think a person could really live three years then suddenly switch straight back in five minutes to a previous existence. It's a bit like a TNG episode that I'll never find the name of where Picard lives a lifetime in a few minutes, the one where he learns to play the flute. It's like 'Huh?? you expect him to be the same person after that? Not likely!' but of course next week he is.
     
  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    What else are they going to do with him though. Some of that can be explained with Lessons (The episode you're talking about is Inner Light) where he does share the experience his someone he is attracted to. Other than that, I do agree that I wish we could have seen a different picard, but I think over the course of the series and Generations we did.
     
  12. Frazzled

    Frazzled Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I remember Lessons. And sure, I agree that Picard grew as a character.

    But, but, but, after just three years like the Doc, nevermind about 50 years like Picard, of totally different experiences, being plonked back to the place you were at before as if it never happened and once again living with people who knew nothing of your other life, would send most of us into gibbering wrecks needing years of therapy, it wouldn't just be another character building event.
     
  13. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I was thinking, geez that holo-emitter must have a heck of a battery on it to last so long.

    I know it's future tech, but I always assumed that little thing he would plug it into in sickbay when he wasn't using it was a type of charging port or something.

    Of course maybe he found a way to recharge it on the planet, if it even needed to be recharged. Anyway, just something I always think about whenever I see this ep.
     
  14. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    If it needed to be recharged, he'd likely have to shut himself off to do it, in which case... who would turn him back on?

    Maybe the thing's powered by advanced nuclear science whatchamawhozits and recharges itself?
     
  15. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^it's powered by quantum :)
     
  16. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Quantum which was magicked up by a wizard.


    Virtuoso (**)

    I went into this episode with bad memories, so I was pleasantly surprised by the first 20 minutes or so where there is some comedy that managed to make me laugh. While I'm not a fan of how Shmully's character developed annoying traits over the years (such as the holo-photography thing) in this episode he manages to be annoying and humorous at the same time.

    Then the second half of the episode kicks in and Shmully decides to leave Voyager for a career as a singer. No, that would not happen, the necessities of the plot are forcing the character to do things he would never do and that absolutely kills this episode for me. This was a man who just last week was so overjoyed to return to Voyager that he abandoned his son, and they expect me to believe that he is going to throw it all away again for fame and the love of a badly-acted woman? Shmully may be a flawed individual who is a little too in love with himself, but he is not a moron.

    :guffaw: How pathetic are these bastards that Harry Kim is considered the cool one?!
     
  17. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Virtuouso gets 2 out of 4 stars from me.

    This was another one of those season six episodes that seem to exist as boring fluff. Besides we had just revisited the Doctor's rights as an individual this season in TTDS so I don't see the need to cover this well trodden ground again. This was also the point in the series where the Doc became absolutely annoying and I couldn't stand him.

    And of course the writers indulged Picardo with his love for opera and singing giving him a chance to do both within the hour. I don't enjoy opera and if that wasn't enough we get the Doc in a clown suit. Lame! And if that wasn't enough the episode tried to emotionally manipulate us into feeling sorry for the Doc when the aliens fickleness kicked into high gear. I also wasn't the least bit moved by the last piece by the Doctor. It wasn't emotionally arousing or moving as a score.

    There was a moment where my interest which had been absent was piqued when Seven believed the aliens were up to something by overloading comm. Unfortunately that didn't last long when it turned out it was fan mail for the Doctor.:rolleyes:

    It's no coincidence that the better episodes this season seemed to have some urgency and a point. Here we are in the Delta Quadrant and instead of doing these lightweight kinds of stories that no one is interested in they should do stories that appeal to one's imagination. TNG rarely was this self-indulgent. I really can only think of "Qpid", "Cost of Living" and "Fistful of Datas" and that was across three seasons. This was yet another weak outing from Biller and a new writer Raf Green.

    Thankfully season six's alternating pattern guarantees that Memorial will be a good solid enjoyable episode.
     
  18. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I don't care if his ego is getting the better of him, the fact that anyone considered the Doctor even trying to leave the ship is beyond stupid - the man is the CMO of the ship that is 'just passing through' the entire quadrant, he can NOT be replaced, and more to the point, he knows it, Janeway knows it, the leola root stew knows it. So why doesn't she bring up this fact? Oh, right. Demands of the plot over demands of reality.

    The only reason I can think that Janeway would approve his request was that she is somehow aware of the fact that the Doctor is going to learn the fleeting nature of his fame very soon. Admittedly, history shows that 'the next big thing' often comes along when the previous big thing has no idea it's coming, but still, for it to come before Voyager has a chance to leave the system wouldn't be a guarantee if this were real life.

    Still, I like Janeway and Seven's exchange about fanmail. That's... really about all I can like about this episode.
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Memorial (****)

    Soooo... war is bad then?

    How often do you get an episode where Chakotay, Neelix, Paris and Harry all get something meaningful to do? Its amazing, they chose the four worst utilised characters and actors in this show and based an episode around them, and they all managed to deliver. The whole mystery element didn't work for me because I remembered the plot of this episode, but the intentions of this episode are good even if a little obvious.

    I enjoy Shmully as much as everyone else, and Seven has her moments, but I think there is much more that can be done with these four characters which is not being done. This episode worked for me because it is a strong ensemble show, I'd like more episodes like this please.
     
  20. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Memorial gets three out of four stars from me. Another solid episode. Braga does come up with some neat ideas and this was most certainly one of them.

    All the character reactions worked well and the sci-fi concept put an interesting spin on things. I liked the touch of a tv in Tom's quarters.

    I know some have a problem with Janeway's decision at the end but I thought it was a perfect compromise. And the reveal of the actual memorial was awe-inspiring. This was certainly a marked improvement from Burger's debut script.