A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Agreed again, GodBen. :)

    This episode is utterly stupid (just why did those aliens choose to eject that pickup in space?) and like you said the cloud mumbo jumbo was just an excuse to use the ship-landing feature they had designed into it, and a rather lame one at that. I think they should have picked a more meaningful reason to use it the first time.

    It seems the dramatic goals of this episode were two-fold. First, let Janeway meet one of her childhood heroes. Second, let the crew meet a well-established group of humans and decide whether it is worthwhile to continue onward. Fair enough. That said, I have long thought it could have been handled much better, and much more believably.

    (If I may derail for a moment. I'll return control when done.)

    First, Voyager doesn't find a pickup truck in space. They pick up an automatic distress call which appears to be Starfleet. Closing in, they find an old automated recorder-marker buoy (not unlike the one from the Valiant in TOS's 'Where No Man Has Gone Before.') It turns out to be from a Starfleet ship (which I'll call the Earhart) reported missing near the Romulan border in the 2190s. They detect what appears to be a Starfleet warp signature coming from a nearby world. Warping there, they come under attack from an old Starfleet ship - in fact, the Earhart itself (possibly Daedalus class) apparently still running after all these years with newer tech patched on.

    We would discover that the Earhart accidentally fell through the Barzan wormhole years ago, was stranded when the wormhole shifted, and wandered through the Delta Quadrant aimlessly for years, not knowing where they were (the maps of the era lacking sufficient info to clue them in) until finally discovering the uninhabited world and settling on it, keeping their ship running to supply and defend the colony. For many years, they have been bullied by a neighboring alien race (possibly Kazon?) This has left them rather paranoid, and also, since the Prime Directive was relatively new at the time, they may've taken some liberties. Voyager helps them deal with their alien problem while bonding with the humans. Similarly to how it was presented in the aired episode, the Voyager crew are then offered the choice to stay behind with the Earhart descendants, or carry on, and offer them the similar choice to come with them. This cultural exchange and deliberation would force the Voyager crew to face the possibility that they might never be able to get home, and might have to settle as the Earhart did. I would definitely have had some of the Earhart descendants come with them, but the Earhart (being slower) and the majority of its descendants stay behind. It might also be interesting if some of the Voyager crew wanted to stay behind but were pursuaded otherwise behind Janeway's back by Chakotay.

    Anyway, that's roughly how I'd have done it. You can have your thread back, GodBen. I think you were generous rating this episode as well as you did, and I'll let you have the last word:

     
  2. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    The 37s is definitely worth of more than *½. Granted that it was not the best Season 2 has to offer, but I think the aspect of crew having a choice to choose was a good one.
     
  3. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    That's an excellent idea! It would have been much easier to pace than The 37's, plus it would have had a Daedalus class ship which is guaranteed to promote an episode to uber-cool status. ;)

    The idea is a good one, and that is how the episode earned 1 of its 1.5 stars. The idea is such an important one that you could have done a whole episode on the subject, but here it was just tacked into the final act of the Amelia Earhart episode and it didn't get the exploration that the issue deserved.
     
  4. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Why, thankya, and my thought too. ;)

    Yeah, it ended up feeling like 'The Savage Curtain' because of Earhart's presence. Good idea, campy execution.
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    At least The Savage Curtain had Abraham Lincoln beating up Genghis Khan. If The 37's had Amelia Earhart kicking Issac Newton between the legs the episode would have earned an extra half star. :p
     
  6. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Or better yet, Adolf Hitler. :techman:
     
  7. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    While I would pay good money to watch Hitler be kicked in such a sensitive area, I just love the symbolism of Issac Newton falling to Earth. ;)
     
  8. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    And his apples crushed?
     
  9. J47

    J47 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I've always loved "The 37's." Granted, the episode feels like someone went "Hey, we should find a way to make the chick flying across the Delta Quadrant meet the first chick to cross the Atlantic," and then the plot was built around the idea. But I actually found the "will some people abandon ship?" to be done well, and to be touching.
     
  10. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I've never loved the "The 37's". I felt it was pretty weak, especially as a season opener. But, and this may sound odd, but I would have enjoyed it more if it had aired as (originally intended) the first Season Finale episode. The whole landing of Voyager and the crew deciding to stay with Voyager felt more appropriate somehow as a kind of bookend to Season 1. I don't know how that makes the episode more likable in my brain, but it does. lol
     
  11. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Personally, it didn't work for me. We had Janeway and Chakotay discussing it for two minutes, then Harry, Torres and Neelix talk about it in the mess hall, and then Janeway and Chakotay talk about it again outside the cargo bay. Only that final scene worked for me.

    But this is such an important idea that it needed to be the sole focus of the show. These people are going to spend the rest of their lives travelling back to a home which may not exist by the time they get there; it is only logical that they would discuss this issue at length. It should have been the basis for the second episode of the show, it should not have been shoehorned in here at the end of an episode about Amelia Earhart.

    I understand and agree, but only if they got rid of the Earhart part of it. It would have worked well as a season finale if done right.
     
  12. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I like this episode. It had some action, some humor and provided an interesting take on Amelia Earhardt's ultipmate fate as well as the alien abduction stories that pop up now and then.

    Sure, finding an old truck floating in space was implausible and the whole "the aliens who abducted us just disappeared" bit was a little too convenient but the moment in the cargo bay when none of the crew decided to leave was priceless.
     
  13. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Exactly. It was the first time Janeway really got the sense of unity onboard her ship; that her crew, all of them, would follow her to no matter what end.

    It was touching.
     
  14. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Agreed. Which is why it would have worked better for me as the season 1 finale. That moment felt a bit more earned when it was the closing chapter of a harrowing story. Getting that information in the season premiere (after months of no episodes) felt off kilter to me for some reason. I guess for me, it lost something because it felt like they'd lost the momentum they'd built up over the course of their first season. I don't know how to explain it better, so I should probably just let this one go. lol.

    Also, for a fan of Trek, who doesn't like Voyager best - I have to point out something that I was telling my roomie last night. When the first Season of Voyager aired, season 3 of DS9 was airing. Now that all is said and done DS9 is my personal favorite Trek, as most of my friends and family know. But what they didn't know, was that in that first season of Voyager I felt that it was the best Trek ever, and that they'd gotten almost everything right from the get go. Until the season just randomly ended with "Learning Curve". That was the first of many decisions by the network and the writers themselves that pushed me away from a program that I absoultely loved in the beginning. When I told my roomie that, he just couldn't believe it. I just thought I'd share.
     
  15. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    ^ I was a kid at the time so I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I think when this episode was first shown on Sky One in the UK (I live in Ireland but I get that channel) it was shown as the season one finale and that scene did work as a bookend for the season. However, on the DVDs it is at the beginning of the second season, so I'm going by the DVD placement.
     
  16. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I also agree with the general sentiment that the dramatic character moments are what redeem this episode from being a complete clunker, and that it seems to work better as a season one finale. I still think 'Janeway meets Amelia Earhart' is no less stupid than 'Kirk meets Lincoln' if not moreso since this was really Earhart and that was just a replica Lincoln.
     
  17. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Initiations (*½)

    Once upon a time an alien and a human are involved in a violent struggle and they end up stranded on a desolate planet together where they learn to put their differences aside and get along. Then it happened again. And again. It became a cliche. Then Voyager took a crack at it.

    This episode is made worse by having some strangely convenient plot-devices, such as a planet you can transport to but for some reason a far simpler radio signal can't get through, and Chakotay needing a shuttle to perform a (probably bullshit) Indian ritual which he could later perform in his quarters.

    This episode is supposed to introduce us to Kazon culture, but they are depicted as so stupid that I'm surprised they have the mental capacity to stand up. I'm reminded of this poster:

    [​IMG]

    As an interesting side-note, that guy was named after me. I have no proof of this, but I have a good feeling in my gut about it. :)

    We have our first shuttle crash people! Lets take a look at where the counters are currently standing.

    Shuttle Crashes: 1
    Torpedoes: 1/38
    Harry deaths: 1


    Edit: I forgot to mention this piece which annoyed me, Chakotay goes on about how much he respects his uniform and how he did a lot to earn it, but no mention is given to how he abandoned it and the only reason he is wearing it now is because he got lost with Voyager. It is like as if the writer completely forgot his background! :wtf:
     
  18. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    It's been a long time since I've seen this episode, but I remember not warming to it very much. IMO, the only real saving grace was Aron 'Nog' Eisenberg giving a good performance. The plot was quite staged and the idea was quite cliche, but I did sympathize with his character, probably because I kept seeing Nog.

    I think that Chakotay shuttle plothole aside, the first part until they crash had promise to be more interesting. It could have been more interesting had they drawn parallels between rituals Chakotay had to undergo as a kid and what Kar was doing, and created more of a father/son thing - which I think they were trying to do but didn't do well. I think in my mind it should have been more a Chakotay episode than a Kazon episode, if that makes sense.

    Still, the second half ends up being 'Enemy Mine' without Dennis Quaid or Lou Gossett Jr. So, it's boring. I think we also find out why Chakotay gets so messed up later on - his medicine bundle is lost with the shuttle!

    I can't believe there's still only one Harry death... :p
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Part of the problem I had with this episode is that I couldn't not see Nog. Nog was such a memorable character who grew into one of the great characters on DS9, and I just can't seen Aron Eisenberg as anybody else. It would be as weird as Patrick Stewart showing up at some point.

    It did have potential, but the Kazon just come across as stupid Klingons. If the Kazon had been more interesting as a culture then this episode would have worked much better.

    Actually Chakotay had his medicine bundle at the end when he was on Voyager, but you are right when you say that it should have been blown up in the shuttle crash. I guess he had two. ;)
     
  20. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Yeah, agreed.

    Also agreed. Stupid, honor-less Klingons.

    Oh. I know. Maybe they should have patterned the Kazon beliefs more on a hybrid Native American culture? Then, with a Native American first officer with a tied down tribe (:p), there might have been some potential for interesting contrast and maybe sympathy. The Trabe then become the white man who treated them like shit, only in the Delta Quadrant the Trabe got comeuppance.

    Exactly, he had to replicate a new one so it didn't work properly and that's why his character seems to lose his way and fall into the background later on. What, you think he's breaking tradition and is the only Starfleet officer in history who had a pocket or something? ;)