A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by TheGodBen, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Barge of the Dead (**½)

    I was tired when watching this episode so maybe this explain why I don't have a clue what it was about. The ending seems to suggest that B'Elanna has made a huge breakthrough that will significantly change who she is, but what was the breakthrough about? What did she learn about herself? Is she really going to be a different person from here on out? Why? Am I just being dumb for not seeing it?

    I'm not normally the sort of person who gets annoyed about Klingon episodes, I usually like the Klingons, but in this instance I found all the Klingon stuff to be boring. The best part of the episode was in the middle as B'Elanna struggles to understand the meaning of what she saw in her near-death experience, but I just found the ending to be a mess of confusing imagery. Maybe I was too tired to understand it, I don't know.
     
  2. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I'd give Barge of the Dead 2.5 stars out of 4.

    I'm just not one of those people who likes episodes where things happen inside a character's head as a means to enlighten us on who they are with a lot of imagery and symbolism. I also have never been too crazy about spiritual mumbo-jumbo either. This sorta felt like a Klingon version of "Mortal Coil" with a dash of "Nothing Human", "Coda", "Tapestry" and "Day of Honor". Also after DS9 and TNG, I was tired of the Klingon episodes. According to Moore this was a story idea he wanted to do on DS9 in season five that ultimately became "Soldiers of the Empire" and ultimately Fuller grabbed it.

    I also found this episode to be one of those outings that you can appreciate in an intellectual way--the imagery, the subject matter-- but because it is presented in such a dry manner it fails as entertainment and therefore fails to really hold my attention. That isn't to say you can't do something that is enjoyable and also is intellectually-stimulating.

    Season seven sorta hints that this experience was real as we learn her mom really did die. So maybe it really wasn't all in her head. I was also perturbed by yet another coincidence of another Alpha Quadrant artifact in the Delta Quadrant--the Klingon bat'leth--but since it was in her head I'll let it slide. But the VFX were beautiful.

    I have to chalk this up as another middling Fuller effort with a little help from Moore.
    I thought it was pretty obvious--she has always struggled with her identity, her sense of self and where she fits in. Is she a Maquis? a Starfleet officer? a rebel or a terrorist? a Klingon or human? She clearly has tried to be everything to everyone and she has never been happy because of it. Here she learns she can just be B'elanna and true to herself.
     
  3. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Between the candle and the star
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I thought Warhead was all right, but somehow not all that compelling. I guess my problem is that I just don't find Harry Kim very interesting. Also, it bugs me how he gets to lord it over the redshirts just because he's a main character! Picardo was really good in this episode though. What a guy.
    I've only seen the first part of Equinox, but I've got to say "wow". Voyager is not normally anywhere near as good as this. Of the season 5 episodes I've seen, only Latent Image was comparable to this. "I tried to focus on the work".
     
  4. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Now see, I'd give 'Survival Instinct' 3.5/5, and 'Barge of the Dead' a 4.5/5.

    'Survival' was a good effort. It was good to go into Seven's past where she once had her individuality resurfacing, became scared of what she saw, and reassimilated herself and her friends back into the collective. I'm not sure the fluidity of the reveal is quite right, but the interaction between Two, Three and Four of Nine was interesting. A bit technobabbly towards the end, but otherwise solid.

    'Barge,' to me, was much more interesting, much more involving than the previous ep, and was a really good episode for B'Elanna. I loved all the Klingon mythical jargon - the setting was top notch. B'Elanna grappled with her Klingon heritage to help her mother get into an afterlife she doesn't necessarily believe in, and I loved it.

    It was nice to see Voyager spend so time on a character episode that didn't involve Janeway, Seven or The Doctor. B'Elanna really was all over the map in season 5 which I never appreciated, so I was happy with this episode.
     
  5. Furtados_Feet

    Furtados_Feet Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Wow, what a great review of "Barge of the Dead" you just did. "It could have been good but I was too tired so I don't really know", I'm so glad I've been following your reviews...maybe I'm just addicted to things with star ratings.
    Well I felt compelled to register because I can not believe you gave it a 5/10.
    This episode is not only one of the finest episodes Voyager ever did but was also one of the finest episodes of Trek ever done.
    I'll be the first to admit I was sick to death of Klingons after DS9 but this story is simply so well written, constructed and acted that I completely forgot about my aversion to Klingons. You seem to be marking this episode down because you're not sure that the episode will have an effect on B'Ellana's behaviour later. What kind of way is that to mark an episode? Mark it on its own merits and how it was acted and written.
    You also seem to be confused by the ambiguity of the episode, but that was the whole point, even B'Ellana didn't know what was going on but she was ready to take a leap of faith and battle with her inner demons and her past problems because she is now ready too.
    A lot of things about Voyager annoy me and the continuity infuriated me no end but there is no doubt this was a superb episode that was the jewel in the bright shiny crown that was the very beginning of season 6.
    I hope you start putting some effort back into your reviews or at least take a break, you seem to be getting so fatigued you don't know a fine episode when you see one.
     
  6. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    GodBen,

    I would suggest watching Barge of the Dead again, when you are wide awake. If you still feel like it's a 2.5 star episode, than that's your perogative, but to lower an episode (And in my opinion one of Voyager's best episodes) down because you were asleep at the time, that's not fair.
     
  7. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    What more do you guys really want to hear from GodBen about "Barge of the Dead"?

    He said he found a lot of it boring. Usually when I find an episode boring or not to my liking I really don't have all that much to rave on about it because well...you know..it didn't hold my attention.

    Ask me to write a review for an episode I really enjoyed and I could wax on indefinitely about a certain character scene that was really affecting or how beautiflly assembled the episode was or what a bit of clever writing it possessed. Ask me to talk about a dull episode and I really can't muster that much to say about it. That seems to be the case with this particular review. Which come to think of it I haven't had a lot to say for a lot of the VOY episodes as I look back thanks to this thread I guess that says something about Voyager.

    Now if you start a thread in TNG about that show my posts would encompass multi-paragraphs about most episodes from seasons 3-6 and even some in the first two seasons like "Q Who" or "The Measure of a Man".
     
  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Not too much. I just wanted to know if he would have the same opinion if he wasn't tired. That's all.
     
  9. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Well judging from his opinions on the episodes of Voyager thus far, he and I seem to share a lot of the same opinions so I'll back him up on his review since I was wide awake when I watched it and I felt the same way.:)
     
  10. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Oh no, it's Remember all over again! [​IMG] At least I'm sober this time.

    Okay, my review for Barge of the Dead was murky with the details so I think I should clarify; I wasn't tired when I first started watching the episode, I was tired by the final five minutes or so. I watched it at around 7PM when I'm usually wide awake, I had just eaten and that normally has the effect of waking me up, and I had a good long lie-in that morning, so all the evidence seems to be suggesting that it was the episode itself that was making me tired.

    I'm not down on Bryan Fuller as a writer (although I was disappointed in the episodes he wrote in season 5) and you all know how I feel about Ron Moore who provided the story for the episode, I just don't trust that the symbolism of this episode meant anything. Why does B'Elanna need to go through an almost incomprehensible near-death experience in order to figure out that she should just be herself? Here you go, I just saved her from almost killing herself.

    That's what I have to do, what I always do. I turned death into a fighting chance to live.

    [​IMG]

    Seriously, I always deduct marks from episodes that suggest a big change has just occurred with no follow-up in subsequent episodes, I just used to do it retroactively whereas now I do it proactively. Just look at my review for Equinox, Part 2, I deducted a point for never bringing up the Equinox crewmembers again. Tell you what, if I notice a marked difference in B'Elanna's attitude for the rest of this season I'll give this episode an extra half-star, deal?

    Right, let's move onto something more fun. :)


    Tinker Tenor Shmully Spy (****)

    I cannot deny, this episode made me laugh on a number of occasions, it is easily my favourite of the "light" Voyager episodes so far. Even a simple line where Shmully fantasises about Neelix giving him a cake made me laugh due to Robert Picardo's fantastic delivery. This whole episode works for me because Picardo has the comic timing to make it work.

    Two issues. This is probably the third or fourth time where Shmully has adapted his problem without informing anyone and it led to serious problems, this guy really needs to learn Einstein's definition of insanity. Secondly, the whole issue of Shmully feeling like he is being treated as a second class citizen seems to have cropped up out of nowhere again, and Janeway giving in to his request to explore the concept of the Emergency Command Hologram is a bit of a reach for me.

    But those two things aren't serious enough to stop me enjoying a scene where B'Elanna, Seven and Janeway vie for Shmully's affections, or the absurdly brilliant command pips. Okay, brilliant might be an overstatement, but it did make me chuckle. :lol:
     
  11. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    In the scene where the Doc first activated the ECH, I could hear the A-team song playing in my head. It fit perfectly. Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy is genius.
     
  12. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I would give TTDS 3 stars out of 4.

    I really have never cared when Trek did comedy. I prefer that to be left up to sitcoms. However, this one is one of the better efforts. I didn't quite find it the laughfest many seem to but then again my sense of humor is demanding. A lot of what some consider funny I usually find juvenile, shallow, forced or outright unfunny.

    I was surprised though that this episode actually had some genuinely amusing notions such as the entire scene in the ready room where Janeway, Seven and Torres fight over the EMH. And there was some poignancy in the Doctor's hidden feelings and his secret longings.

    If you are going to do a lightweight fluff piece this is how it should be done and "Spirit Folk" is how you shouldn't. Still as entertaining as it was I wouldn't consider it great.
     
  13. Frazzled

    Frazzled Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Location:
    The mess hall
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I just don't 'get it'. I usually like it when Trek does comedy, I usually love the Doc. All you super informed trek fans seem to love TTDS. I should probably think it's the best episode ever (after Resolutions of course ;))

    But I don't. I think it's just about the rubbishiest episode I've ever seen. I even prefer Threshold to this nonsense. It's just way way too overdone. Sorry! :techman:
     
  14. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Alice (*)

    For ten whole years I've been waiting for the chance, to meet the Voyager writers to find out how this script passed, but now I've got to get over it and write a review for Alice. Alice? Why the f*#@ did they write Alice?!

    Amusing aside; at one of my aunt's weddings the (catholic) priest who performed the ceremony got really pissed and started singing that song into a bottle, swears and all. We captured it on video. :devil:

    The episode begins well, Voyager comes across a junk-yard in space and do a little trading, that's a good use of Voyager's premise. The Tom finds a shuttle and begins to obsess about fixing it up, which is a bit of a rehash of the worst element of Vis a Vis but I can live with it if it goes some place interesting. Instead the ship is alive and tries to kill Torres and kidnaps Tom and tries to fly into a particle fountain because it thinks that it is home. Why does it think a destructive space anomaly is home? My guess is that there is no reason and that was only used as ticking time-bomb to add "suspense" to the end of the episode. Oh, and I'm right, ten points for me! :D

    There is no character development for Tom because everything Tom does here is under the influence of some silly magic ship that wants to kill itself.

    Now clearly I don't know much about women, but I do know it would be a bad idea for me to name my car after "the one that got away" while in a serious relationship with someone else. :wtf: This scene happened before Tom connected up to the magic interface that made him crazy, so why is he acting so stupid this early in the episode?
     
  15. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Well, now...

    I'd think it was funny, but I've been married, like, forever. Or maybe I'm abnormally non-jealous/non-possessive? (And I'm definitely not Klingon or half-Klingon.) Anyway, I thought it was funny when Tom said it, too, and it never so much as occurred to me that this would be a bad idea since he was in a serious relationship. I'm not too crazy about this episode, otherwise, mind you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  16. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I actually enjoy "Alice". It is one of those obviously average shows that still manages to be entertaining. There really isn't a lot to really say about it except it held my attention. The episode also built on "Barge of the Dead" with Torres seeming to have grown especially with her relationship with Tom.

    I'd give it 2.5 stars out of 4.
     
  17. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Location:
    Ireland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Maybe I'm just unlucky then, the women I've been with tend to get jealous if I even email another woman. :lol: If I named my car after a prior infatuation I would fully expect to find it as a burned-out wreck the next morning.
     
  18. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Finland
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    For me Alice was harmless episode. Not brilliant, not even good, but not bad either. I might give it ** (in GodBen's scale).
     
  19. Dane_Whitman

    Dane_Whitman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    Dinner to bug.
    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    Alice ranks with Trek's best comedy episodes for this line alone:

     
  20. NumberSix

    NumberSix Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

    I like Tom and B'Elanna's fight in the corridor after he saves her from suffocating. It felt very real, and I don't think we'd seen Tom get that riled up before.
     

Share This Page