A Hater Revisits nuWho

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Bones2, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    How dare he experience affection for someone! I agree. Absolutely pathetic that he would actually bond with someone and come to care about her. :guffaw:
     
  2. wamdue

    wamdue Admiral Admiral

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    do I want to know more?

    I do wonder why you are by the sounds of it torturing yourself by watching Doctor Who, ok so you dont enjoy it, but when continue to watch?

    then again I think we sci-fi fans are masochists in that way, and secretly we enjoy being able to say something was rubbish and how we would have done it better.

    I think there comes a point in all fandom where, the fans start to think they can do better, that point comes way to quickly on the internet.
     
  3. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is just me, but I feel like Season 1 is the second-best of nuWho.

    Season 3
    Season 1
    Season 2 & 4 (tie, I haven't rewatched 4 enough to truly judge.)

    Again, just my opinion. Ranking season 4 so low also says absolutely nothing about Donna as a companion (I thuoght she was great(
     
  4. wamdue

    wamdue Admiral Admiral

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    the Doctor is as much "in love" with Rose in S2, so im not sure Red-Bonesed Reindeer would like it, even with a new Doctor.
     
  5. Captain Pike

    Captain Pike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dalek is great, but I'm very lukewarm on Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways. The Big Brother setting of part 1 combined with the resolution of the whole affair at the end of part 2 left a bad taste in my mouth..
     
  6. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    I will be interested to read the Dalek review, it really is a good ep, for me. Really made the Daleks the badasses we've been told they are.
     
  7. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    Well, the thing is, I may not be a big fan of it, but I have watched new Who every week when it's on, and sometimes it's alright. But it gets an awful lot of good reviews, which I often feel are undeserved, so I thought I'd watch it all again and see if I've missed something. Combining that with my fondness for the old series (having grown up seeing a lot of it), I do want to give it a fair chance, and I do want it to be good.
     
  8. Emh

    Emh The Doctor Premium Member

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    My thoughts exactly. "Dalek" is a fantastic story while I've never cared for "Bad Wolf"/"Parting of the Ways." Hell, I'm not a big fan of any of the season finales except season 4's.
     
  9. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Except...."You are the weakest link." *ZAP* "Goodbye." :lol:
     
  10. Captain Pike

    Captain Pike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    About the only real positive in it for me was seeing the dalek emperor back. And voiced superbly by Nick Briggs - as always, he does amazing work that chap.
     
  11. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There is not a single moment of "Bad Wolf" that I dislike. I'm not exaggerating; from the moment Eccleston appears in that chair onwards, every tiny piece is great, and it just gets better and better as it goes.
     
  12. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    Dalek (****)

    Right, I'll say it now. Dalek is not a 5 star story. It's only just about a 4 star story. Very good, but not perfect, and even then, a large amount of its appeal comes from the fanservice value. And the fact it's not the previous two episodes. And that I didn't notice the sonic screwdriver making an appearance.

    So, the Tardis materialises in an underground museum in 2012, having been attracted there by a signal, or something. It's nice when they give a reason for the Tardis being somewhere. That's not sarcasm, it really is one of the first things I look for. And it's immediately a cool museum, because we see a Cyberman's head. A classic Cyberman. That is a fantastic thing to see, and this is the first time I really feel this new series takes place in the same continuity as the old one.

    We then see the guy who owns it: an unlikeable yank who has this underground museum of extraterrestrial artifacts, who fires people at the drop of a bad joke, chooses the President, and owns the internet. I am sure he will end the episode unscathed. That is sarcasm.

    Now, we know the episode is called Dalek, so there's no mystery as to what is being tortured. Even so, we don't see it yet, and that does successfully build our anticipation.

    So, we have a bit of chat between the Doctor and van Statten, and then we get to it. And before the Doctor goes in, he's offered big rubber gloves, being told that the last person who touched it burst into flames. He turns them down though, because presumably he remembers from the previous episode that things that are deadly to humans aren't deadly to him. But yeah, the Doctor goes in and the lights are down. Why the lights are down but then only go up after the Doctor and the Dalek have talked a bit doesn't really make sense, but...well, it's dramatic, innit.

    Now, as I say, I've seen every episode of all 4 series, but I still got a kick out of seeing this scene again. And I may have issues with the ninth Doctor character (or at least, I seem to the way RTD writes him), but Eccleston's acting is note perfect. We can buy it that the Doctor's experienced a lot of trauma with these creatures, and as he turns on the torture at the end, we feel sympathy for them both.

    The updated Dalek design is also brilliant, like it's a small tank, while still being obviously a Dalek and looking like a classic Dalek. It's a shame they couldn't manage the same trick with the new Cybermen, but that's a criticism for another series.

    Then we sadly leave that action and get some talk between Rose and this Adam guy. Comparatively uncompelling to what we've just seen.

    And then the Doctor gives us the backstory we've been craving since the start of the series, but it gets him chained up and tortured too. I really didn't expect that. Shouldn't have told van Statten he's an alien.

    Meanwhile, Rose goes and has a chat with the Dalek, and we really feel for it. And Rose goes and touches it. Now, was it all a plot by the Dalek? I suppose so. And how just being touched would revive it is a shaky concept, even with later explanation, but right then the first thing I thought was didn't we get told that the last person who touched it burst into flames? Meh, we've got the first Dalek since 1988 up and running, I'll buy the conceit.

    So, after putting its plunger to good use, it drains (eheh, drains/plunger?) a load of energy out of the grid and learns the entire internet. Of course, at the time, the two biggest things on the internet would probably have been pornography (obviously) and speculation about the first Dalek on new Doctor Who. Maybe that's why they set it in 2012. But now we get a Dalek as we've always wanted to see one. And it's an absolute joy to watch. I mean, sure, lots of people are dying, but once their families find out it was by the first Dalek in nearly 20 years, I'm sure they'll understand.

    Anyway, turns out nifty old van Stratten has some alien weapons, but they're all in the vault, and they can't get there because of the Dalek being in the way. Damn shame. Looks like they can't alien weapon their way out of this one. I wonder how things will be resolved if not with alien weapons.

    We then get the obligatory stairs scene, and for those who never saw Remembrance, we find out Daleks can hover. Adam and Rose keep running, and then the Dalek gets cornered by more soldiers/guards/whatever vanStrat employs them for. The Doctor gives advice over the radio to keep aiming for the dome and eyepiece, and then the arrogant commander says he knows how the fight one tin robot. A word of advice: if you find yourself in an episode of new Doctor Who and don't want to die, don't act like a stupid or unpleasant person. Unless it's an RTD script and you're the Doctor, in which case be as unpleasant as you want because you're the Doctor and the audience has to like you.

    ...sorry, got carried away there. So we get another cool scene in which the Dalek sets off the sprinklers and kills everyone by electrocuting them with one shot. Which, as I say, is a cool scene, but they all seem to be wearing thick boots, so should they all go down? Meh, Dalek tech I suppose. So those big rubber gloves that got offered to the Doctor earlier may not have helped anyway.

    And now we hear that Rose's DNA helped the Dalek because she's a time traveller, explaining why she didn't burst into flames. I must have missed the episode where we find out that time travel dramatically changes your DNA. Still, I'll go with it. It's a Dalek!

    We then get more play on the duality of the Dalek and the Doctor, both being the last of their race and the Doctor's outright hatred and such. It's all good stuff. Dalek carries on moving, and so Rose and Adam have to run ahead of it so it can be shut in. And this time, rather than his unbelievable quasi-love story melodrama with Rose like last time, the Doctor realises he has to seal her in to save everyone else, maybe even the whole world. That's more like it.

    We hear the cry of "Exterminate!" and the sound of the Dalek gun, so obviously it sounds like she's dead now. Of course, she isn't. The poor Dalek is mad, and shoots around pointlessly instead. Only, disappointingly, the love story returns when the Doctor gives in to the Dalek's ultimatum of release or Rose gets it. Gee thanks Doctor, we're all dead now. Maybe that's what all this 2012 stuff was about...

    And remember how all the alien guns were in the vault which is now sealed off, so the story can't possibly be resolved with aliens guns? Turns out Adam was cataloguing some other alien guns and those alien guns aren't in the vault. And one of them actually works. Bargain. Perhaps we're not completely doomed then.

    Meanwhile, even though the Dalek's on the loose again, he's softened up a bit, and all he wants it a bit of sun. Bless. And because Rose has nice pretty DNA, the Dalek's stopped being all bad. Which makes you wonder that if all Daleks have this mechanism, whereby they can get re-energised by a touch from a time traveller, they'd make sure the DNA wouldn't start stopping them from being a Dalek. But it does, and he can't cope, so he tops himself. Sad to see the last of the Daleks go out with a whimper rather than a bang. He is the last of the Daleks, right?

    Anyway, it seems poor van Statten won't fare much better. Maybe we're meant to find it karmic that his mind is going to get wiped and he'll end up a homeless druggie, but the bleeding heart liberal in me finds that a bit harsh.

    So the Doctor and Rose leave, and Adam goes with them. I'm sure he'll do fine.



    Am I being too nitpicky? 4 stars feels a little bit kind to my mind, but it is great to see a Dalek in action this way, and it was very enjoyable, indeed even engrossing. Anyway, it looks like next week RTD is dusting off his sonic pen. Will it be 5th time lucky?
     
  13. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    INSEMINATE! INSEMINATE! And a whole different episode to the one we watched. :eek:

    As to Rose touching the Dalek and rebooting it - Rose, as a time traveller is bathed in some kind of temporal radiation, and it's that that the Dalek took from her.

    In the main< I agree with what you've said, though I'm more "glass half full" about it.
     
  14. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    You know, there's something worrying about a person who obviously dislikes a show so much making themsevles watch it again. You're claiming you're watching with an open mind but clearly what you're actually doing is torturing yourself so you can moan about it on the message board. Seriousy if you think any episode of Who is worth a zero rating (even the worst Who eps have some redeeming qualities--in fact giving anything a zero rating is a trifle silly, I don't think I've ever seen a film or an episode of anything that I absolutely disliked everything about, even Superman Returns had cracking titles), if you think Dalek only just scrapes a 4 (and I say that as someone who's never felt it was a brilliant episode but it's easily a 4) well maybe you should spend your time watching stuff you like?

    Unless you like moaning of course ;)
     
  15. Captain Pike

    Captain Pike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    4 is pretty good though isn't it? I had assumed it was out of 5. I'd give it a 4 out of 5.

    If you give it 5 out of 5 then what do you do when you get to Blink?
     
  16. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    ^ That's true ("tru dat" is SO 2005!) :D
     
  17. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah but he was giving it 4 grudgingly. Personally I'd probably give it 4 myself, with a Blink or a Midnight getting 5.

    It's the semantics of it A hater revisits Who. I'm reminded of Gorkon's daughter in Star Trek 6. 'Human rights, the very name is racist.'

    I dunno, the thread just feels like an opportunity to rant about how much he hates Who rather than a serious reappraisal that's all.
     
  18. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    Oh yeah, I mean, so am I. It's a very good episode, and 4 stars is not to be sniffed at.
    Yes.
    Yeah, something very worrrying. I'm very weird and riddled with all sorts of problems. Please stop pointing it out so I can try and recover some self-esteem.
    So what's the problem?
    Well, maybe hater is a bit strong. Perhaps non-fan would be closer. But what I'm trying to put across is that I'm not a gushing fan who'll love everything. I'm judging everything as I see it, and giving my reasons.
    Well, as I say, I'm giving reasons for everything I say. I'm not just calling everything awful for its own sake. And I don't have a vested interest in it being bad. I want it to be good. Good Doctor Who should be some of the best television around. As for whether it's a serious reappraisal, it really is. I didn't expect Unquiet Dead to be as good as it was (and it really was), I didn't expect the Slitheen two-parter to be as bad as it was, and I did fully expect to be able to give Dalek the full 5 stars. Again, I haven't seen the first series since it first went out, and I think it's now worth going back over, especially with the consistent acclaim the show seems to get.
     
  19. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    I really like 'Love & Monsters'. Nice to see I'm not the only one who doesn't think that the episode is terrible.
     
  20. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

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    Well, it does have plenty of ELO in it, so count me in on those who like it.