A country without Money how it's work?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Brainsucker, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Hey, did anyone else notice that in Into Darkness neither Pike nor Kirk paid for their drinks when they left the bar?

    "Are you not afraid," I asked, "that unlimited quantities of free wine will lead to excessive drinking?"
    "By no means. No one gets drunk here. We have been living under this system for a year, and everyone is satisfied...." -- The Anarchist Collectives by Sam Dolgoff.
     
  2. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They were identified through bio-metrics, and the price of the drinks were deducted from their accounts.

    :)
     
  3. Hando

    Hando Commander Red Shirt

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    Jan 28, 2011
    Or they drink on the tab.
     
  4. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Nothing wrong with tabs. They don't presume the existence of money, though.

    "Credit systems, tabs, even expense accounts, all existed long before cash. These things are as old as civilization itself." David Graeber - Debt: The first 5,000 Years.
     
  5. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, they kind of do.

    They certainly presume eventual payment of some kind, maybe not in cash, but yes payment. Running up a tab means the samething as running up a bill.


    Tab: account, invoice, statement, bill.

    :borg:
     
  6. Faria

    Faria Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    it doesn't work
     
  7. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    But still no money. There maybe "debt" of some kind, defined in some cultural or social way, but no debt-tokens nor medium of exchange as we currently understand it.
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it's still money. Regardless of the form it takes. If you incur a debt (i.e. drinks in a bar), and you have preformed a action or deed that result in you possessing compensation for that action, which you use to cancel the debt (drinks), sorry thegoodnews, that is money.

    If you do social work, and this enables you obtain two drinks, and somewhere there is a accounting of the amount of social work verse the number of drinks ... that's money.

    Even if you're directly paid in alcohol, you're still receiving compensation for your labors.

    :)
     
  9. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oct 29, 2012
    So they're being paid to drink rather than paying or did they pay it forward? Which is the inverse of them having to pay for what they consumed. What you're describing is very much like old school gift economics which historically preceded the monetary system. Ask David Graeber: "In fact our standard account of monetary history is precisely backwards. We did not begin with barter, discover money and then eventually develop credit systems. It happened precisely the other way around." Debt: the First 5,000 Years by David Graeber

    As most anthropologists now conclude the Gift Economy was the ancient standard before the monetary system appeared, and in many historical cases was preferred. So there is still a difference. For example:

    "Money is hereby abolished and libertarian communism is proclaimed in this village....The castle has been turned into a warehouse and supply centre. Everyone brings what they can and takes what they need. There is amazement and delight on the faces of women who help themselves to necessary commodities without paying." The Story of the Iron Column: Militant Anarchism in the Spanish Civil War by Abel Paz.

    By your reasoning T'Girl, the items brought to the castle constitute a form of money or payment even though items were taken without "paying?"
     

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