7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Samurai8472, Sep 29, 2012.

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Grade "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Poll closed Oct 30, 2012.
  1. The girl who waited

    100 vote(s)
    64.5%
  2. Something borrowed

    35 vote(s)
    22.6%
  3. Average

    10 vote(s)
    6.5%
  4. Is it bad that I really miss this?

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. You're Scottish, fry something

    7 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. Sadistro

    Sadistro Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, I found this to be a massively underwhelming episode in most regards. It just felt like none of it mattered or had any substance to it, because it was really only about the departure of the Ponds. All the stuff with Grayle, the actual scenes with the Angels, the dodgy explanations behind it all... It all came across as hand waving, filler content to pad the episode out until it reached the conclusion and got rid of Amy and Rory.

    The Doctor was also one of the surplus to requirements elements, actually! What did he really do in this episode, besides sitting or standing about with his head in his hands, lamenting that he couldn't do anything? Given the outrageous and shameless cheating that Moffat did in last season's finale, it was a bit hard to swallow this sudden helplessness on his part. It all felt a bit 'These are the Voyages...' in terms of how the heroes apparently lost their usual resourcefulness, and just blundered about.

    Like that ending scene in the graveyard. 'Hooray, we've won - we're all as happy as clams, ra ra ra! Oh, we're off to see the wizard...' Well, nice going there, heroes. Just assume you've won, don't bother to actually check or anything...
     
  2. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    At the end of the episode? It seems unlikely that River could have reached them and had them write an addendum if they were transported back to the hotel.
     
  3. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Right. Since the Hotel vanished into a singularity of its own paradox, Amy and Rory were stranded in the past and left to their own devices in much the same way that the characters in "Blink" were.
     
  4. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    The best of the bunch this season. Damn near brought me to tears. It's kinda like Donna with this situation.

    That being said, it could've been a two-parter to flesh out the story a bit.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Plus don't they say in the Addendum that they're having a fabulous time or something?
     
  6. Ghost Bones

    Ghost Bones Captain Captain

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    I'm not talking about the gravestone, I'm talking about the Weeping Angel. All the ones in the building vanished and whatever was going on with the Statue of Liberty was resolved, but there was still a Weeping Angel clowning around in the graveyard.
     
  7. Emh

    Emh The Doctor Premium Member

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    Wonderful episode and an absolutely beautiful ending and farewell for Amy and Rory. Did a lot of us more or less predicted their fate? Yeah, but the way it was presented was still tear-jerking. Their mutual act to jump off the building to destroy the paradox ("To save you, I could do anything") was sweet and poignant. I will miss Rory and Amy dearly but I have a feeling they'll return in some for for the 50th anniversary (along everyone else AND the kitchen sink ;)).

    The one thing I was disappointed about was we didn't get to see The Doctor telling Brian why Amy and Rory aren't coming back.

    Did anyone notice the short preview for the Christmas episode? It was only a few shots of The Doctor, Oswald, and Richard E. Grant (looking rather Christopher Walken-like)?
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    And here I thought that when a paradox was created, Reapers arrived and started eating everybody. :ouch:
     
  9. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She was wearing a dress? I was too mesmerized by the cleavage to notice .:drool:

    Great episode though it was quite predictable due to the presence of the Angels. But even if something it predictable it can still be effective if it's well done and causes you to feel something which it did. I didn't cry but I was on the verge f doing so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  10. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Really liked the episode, even though I kind of knew that was how we were going to say goodbye to Amy and Rory. I think the thing I liked the most was the showing that Amy and Rory really do love each other deeply and it brought that relationship full circle. I do wish we got a scene with Rory's father though because in hindsight to the episode, Rory's father was kind of a meaningless character, other than to basically state at the end of the last episode what was going to happen to them.

    As for the Angels, I really liked they were brought back to what they were like in Blink. They were scary, menacing, and one of the best villians the show has created, as far as me watching anyway going back to the Eccleston year.

    I'm looking forward to the new companion. Amy and Rory had thier fun, but it's time to bring on someone new. I actually don't think Amy was the best companion, but she was worthy of the ones I've seen here. I actually do feel bad for Martha though. She was companion in what many consider a forgettable season (Even though I liked season 3 and the Master Arc that ended it and maybe I'm wrong with it being forgettable) but she does seem to be the only one who got the best deal after her experience with the Doctor.

    Rose had to build an entirely new life on a new world but she did get the Doctor, or at least a version of him. Donna had her brain scrambled that even an association with the Doctor means she might die. Amy and Rory are not living in the past and while they had each other, all thier friends and family are gone or either still children. Martha on the other hand, joined Unit, is still living, and still has her friends and family on present day earth. If we include Jack here, I guess he had it good too with Torchwood, but considering he can't die, maybe that's a curse in disguise.

    If I were to rank the companions from favorite to least favorite:

    Donna
    Rory
    Rose
    Captain Jack
    Amy
    Martha

    Hopefully I'm not forgetting any.
     
  11. captain crow

    captain crow Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Blah. A rushed and predictable mess. Amy and Rory's exit wasn't a suprise at all. Most people had already guessed them being sent to the past in an unretrievable way when the Angels were first announced as the baddies for Darvill and Gillan's final episode. And Moffat's "Oh, I'm so cleaver ending it where it began" moment with young Amelia fell a little flat since he's already used variations of that plot device about four times already. In fact, this makes it the third series final in a row that Moff has used the time loop plot device in some fashion.

    Also, was it really necessary to make Rory a complete tit in the end?

    Doctor: Let's go to a pub in the TARDIS.

    Rory: Just a mo'. I want to look at a gravestone in the opposite direction of the TARDIS for no particular reason.

    [Rory looks at gravestone]

    Rory: Amy, come and see. Some dead bloke has got the same name as me. What are the odds of that happening out of a planetary population of about seven billion?

    [Rory gormlessly stares at Amy then gets zapped by the Angel]

    What a shit final moment for an often shat upon character.
     
  12. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    Yes I thought that scene was really badly done. If they had done it in a creepy, spooky way so he had to look at the tombstone that might of worked or even directed it better so he didn't end up turning round and walking back to it for no apparent reason.
     
  13. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Yeah, there needed to at least be a comment that he was going to fetch something they forgot or something to explain his walking back.

    Unless it was just one of those "he felt strangely drawn to that tombstone" sort of things.
     
  14. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    Well that's a sweeping generalisation, very offensive and based on absolutely nothing in this thread. Maybe you need to think before you post in future.
     
  15. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    I wondered if that was the intention but it wasn't directed like that - it just came from nowhere.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I spent a ridiculous amount of time thinking about what the construction of the bra might be.
     
  17. Orac Zen

    Orac Zen Mischief Manager Super Moderator

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    ...yeah. Not happy, Jan.

    Leaving aside the angels' abilities / properties being retconned again, the ludicrousness of a Statue of Liberty-sized angel wandering around the place without anyone noticing (cool as the concept may be) and Rory just arbitrarily deciding to wander back and check out the gravestone, there's the fact the Ponds were killed off at all. I simply don't see the need. Thankfully it wasn't a Donna-style complete character assassination (don't get me started on that, btw), but I dunno - even though it was obvious to anyone they were going to be killed off, it just seems so unimaginative. There were any number of ways to remove the Ponds from the scene, and Moffat went with the death option. I'd hoped for better, even though I knew I wasn't going to get it. And for the Doctor to offhandedly remark to River at the end "Oh yeah, they were your parents, weren't they. Sorry about that" ...good grief, how pathetic. Way to make the Doctor look like a complete jerk on top of everything else.

    There were things I liked. The baby angels were absolutely creeptacular (that insane giggling was brilliantly creepy), the Doctor primping for River (who'd better be back at some point) was hilarious, the whole power of love thing with the Ponds was surprisingly effective and well done by both Gillan and Darvill, and the final shot of Amelia...waiting...was genuinely moving. On the whole, though...eh. Very eh. And I'm left wondering what the point of River being Amy and Rory's daughter even was, given how rarely it's been referred to since.

    I didn't much like Oswald / Oswin / whatever so I'm not sure how much I'm looking forward to the next batch of episodes, but I'll give it a whirl anyway. Overall (and for the very little it's worth) I've not been overly impressed with this part season; hopefully it'll get better from here.
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But they didn't die.They went into the past and lived into their 80's.
     
  19. Ghost Bones

    Ghost Bones Captain Captain

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    I suppose the obvious joke is "about two dozen".
    Oh it is, is it? How about Africans, are they funny too?

    You want to be a bit more careful saying things like that, people might make judgements about you.
     
  20. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I haven't forgotten any of the old ones if I've never seen the old ones. I thought we know this by now. Not everyone in this forum has seen the original series.
     

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