7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Samurai8472, Sep 29, 2012.

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Grade "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Poll closed Oct 30, 2012.
  1. The girl who waited

    100 vote(s)
    64.5%
  2. Something borrowed

    35 vote(s)
    22.6%
  3. Average

    10 vote(s)
    6.5%
  4. Is it bad that I really miss this?

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. You're Scottish, fry something

    7 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Apr 22, 2001
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    I agree with you re the classic Doctors, hell we've yet to see a modern Doctor treat their companion quite as viciously as Seven treated Ace in Fenric, and yes it was to save her life but still...

    I'd disagree about Smith though, personally I just see him as a cantankerous old man trapped in a young man's body, yeah he's been a bit ADHD of late, but I thought he was quite restrained in Manhattan, and I get the impression that his Doctor is going to calm down a little when Clara shows up.

    Nine was great, and I've yet to see either Smith or Tennant come close to the sheer hate/terror he showed in Dalek, but by the same token, I somehow doubt Eccleston would have been able to play the meeting with Sarah Jane with anywhere near the emotion/exuberance of Tennant.
     
  2. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    Good: snappy one-liners, some unusually good acting from Gillan, moving use of young Amelia, evil cherubs, nice use of Doctor's awkward preening.

    Bad: poor plotting, clumsy direction at key moments (e.g. Rory and tombstone), ham-fisted characterisation in parts (e.g. Doctor as one-dimensional needy loner).

    Ugly: Statue of Liberty (i.e. implausible and very badly executed), very rushed (a Moffat trademark).

    Nothing in this to rival Ten and Rose or Donna (for very different reasons, obviously). And not a hint of the authoritative madness of Four.

    This is all a more dispassionate assessment. When I suspend my disbelief, I still enjoy it. Even when mediocre, Doctor Who combines the silly and somber, irreverent and dignified, in interesting ways.
     
  3. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Switzerland
    Ha! That deserves to be quoted.
     
  4. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    The Doctor could've blown up the universe by saving himself using that logic!

    My point is more that the authors can easily decide to retrieve Amy and Rory if they want to. There's a very simple out.

    Mr Awe
     
  5. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    FWIW, that pic of young Amy does nothing for me. Nonsensical mawkish crap only warrants one feeling from me, and it isn't sadness. I was hoping the connection with the 11th hour would be more significant, what with Rory's Nurse badge stating he became one in 1991, no modern cars are around yet they have laptops and touchscreen phones I was expecting a big twist answer/reveal there. But there wasn't. The only reason its there is because Moffat said it felt right, rather than being a valid dramatic point. It's just there to push a button, not to advance/close a plot.

    It makes me wonder if there is something wrong with me. I love Deep Space Nine. I love Battlestar. I love TNG. I love Breaking Bad. Why does Doctor Who always piss me off when everyone is saying how much I should love it?
     
  6. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Different people like different things?
     
  7. MistbornFreak

    MistbornFreak Cadet Newbie

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    Something that gets is that people complain about the giant Liberty Angel or whatever it's called, but not about one of the Angels in Blink managing to cross a busy road next to a police office in a city and hide outside the window in broad daylight, just because Sally blinked? After that, and the fact that Angels can move about so easily without being seen by birds/insects/other random creatures, the giant Liberty Angel isn't such a stretch for me anymore. Also, I'm not sure that it was the actual Statue of Liberty, seeing as the actual thing most certainly isn't made of stone, it's probably just a mock thing made by the Angels, although that was never mentioned in the episode. Really should've been a two parter.

    Still, despite the episode's flaws, it was able to suspend my disbelief, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. :3
     
  8. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    QC, IL, USA
    Basically, the "rules" of the Weeping Angels change from episode to episode. Sometimes they displace you in time. Other times they just kill you. According to River in this latest episode, the Angels "took over" the city's statues.
     
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Moffat himself has stated that he never bothered to look at Rory's badge since it had no plot relevance, and thus the date it gave went completely overlooked.
     
  10. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Apr 22, 2001
    Location:
    Behind enemy lines
    Exactly, it really would be a dull world otherwise. I love DS9, and really like TNG but I could write reams on my issues with Nu BSG :lol: I like firefly but I don't really get the 'best show evah' malarky, and there are plenty of accliamed shows I've given up on and crappy shows I've stuck with cos I had a soft spot for them. :shrug:

    I'd never tell someone they should love Who*, I just think anyone who consistently doesn't like it at all, who finds few or no redeeming features about it should, in the words of Why Don't You (and 5 completely pointless points to the first person to identify the WDY/Who connection) "Turn off the tv and go do something more interesting instead."

    But no, Dac, I don't think there's anything wrong with you!

    * The only show I proselytize about is Blakes 7. You will love Blakes 7, or else...:mad:
     
  11. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Norfolk, VA
    Which brings me back to my other point that the Doctor has a certain sense of what a fixed point is. With his own death, he didn't quite realize it at first, but he figured it out (and he figured out that it did not merely involve using the tesselect, but that it required to fake his own death and maintain a lower profile). Here, he's figured out that the fixed point involves Rory and Amy growing old and dying.

    Actually, it might be more helpful to think of this as crossing your own time stream rather than changing a fixed point.

    If the argument is simply that the writers can cop out, I'm not disagreeing with you. If the argument is that the more logical result of the episode is that this isn't permanent, that's where the disagreement arises. Certainly, if the writers want to bring them back, they are welcome to use any reason they choose (including this one).
     
  12. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
  13. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I really loved the bit where the Doctor always rips out the final page of a book because he doesn't want the story to end. That was a beautiful notion, and so emblematic of the series' longevity.
     
  14. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Commodore

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    Oct 21, 2009
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  15. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Someone so needs to remove the DW logo and Photoshop a spine and back cover so I can paste it onto an old paperback.
     
  16. Orac Zen

    Orac Zen Mischief Manager Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Location:
    Godsown.
    Just finished watching the ep again and I'm wondering (again, though I've not mentioned it before) about the Rolls Royce reference (as the Doctor leaves the TARDIS after primping for River). What the heck is that about?

    "I will never be able to see you again". :( I repeat: As much as I dislike the notion of the Ponds being gone for good, I want Moffat et al to stick to it. No RTD-style bullshit where a supposedly unchangeable scenario is undone. Leave it as it is.


    Preach it. :bolian:
     
  17. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Commodore

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    Probably just something used or replicated by the TARDIS when rebuilding the console room in The Eleventh Hour. The typewriter on the console also has a brand name attached to it, albeit a fictitious one. (Also, I think hubcaps or replicas thereof were used for roundels.)
     
  18. Chris3123

    Chris3123 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Pensacola, FL
    The BBC folks themselves actually made an image of the cover of the book in the episode. This was on the official DW website:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral


    Many thanks. I would have have missed that completely.


    *sigh* Its such a bummer to have a Saturday without a new Who episode. :(
     
  20. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    The only episode that I felt had no pacing issues was "A Town Called Mercy". Every other episode felt rushed. The worst one was "The Power of Three". I feel that behind the scenes that something was going on with Doctor Who this year. Whatever that was, it had an impact on the series. For me, this has been a disappointing season. I feel that they need to hire better writers who can work within the confines of the 45 minute episode.
     

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