5x10 Vincent and the Doctor (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Count Zero, Jun 5, 2010.


What's your verdict?

  1. Excellent

  2. Good

  3. Average

  4. Meh

  5. I'd rather cut off my ear

  1. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

    Mar 12, 2005
    I thought it was pretty good, gave it an excellent, mainly because it was better than good. If you see what I mean.

    Tony Curran, very good. Monster, a tad ordinary - some interesting things could have been done there, but it would have ended up a 2 parter.

    The bit about the Doctor describing dealing with Michaelangelo was funny, and watching the Starry Night swirl above them was moving.

    Bill Nighy - excellent as usual. That scene with his speech while Vincent was listening was a little OTT, but moved me to tears. And again on a second watching

    And really liked the Doctor's steampunky device.

    Two things.

    One, the Doctor gave Vincent a wonderful thing - the gift of vindication. Yes, it's tough now, but eventually people will see what you saw through all those paintings you couldn't sell when you were here.

    Two, what was coming for Vincent through the wheat field?

    This ep prompted a little research. Wheat Field With Crows was apparently not his last painting, but I have my doubts. His last paintings in that last month were all of the wheat field in different moods, in sun and shadow. What paintings they are. But maybe there was something out there other than his madness.

    From Wikipedia:
    Maybe it wasn't deliberately self-inflicted, defending himself against something, and maybe there was another sadness. Who'd believed a madman shot by his own gun if he'd said anything about monsters?

    Out there explanation - it was the Crack, or something similar.

    ETA: a little pickup - the Doctor took Amy to Arcadia, before it fell in the Time War.

    Ooo, tiny errors! Vase With Sunflowers was painted in 1888. Hmm. Nighy's character said the church was painted in June 1890, less than a year before he died. But he actually died in July, 1890, so - less than a month before he died.

    Or are they errors?!

    The last crow... it looks like the Crack!
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  2. spinnerlys

    spinnerlys Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 23, 2008
    in between
    Very good episode, also the monster was not that interesting.

    But Bill Nighy could have been used for a better episode, where he actually is the main guest star, but maybe they haven't thought of that or couldn't do it. Nice nod though, as he was a candidate at some point for the new doctor if I remember correctly. But why wasn't he mentioned in the end credits?
  3. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

    Oct 31, 2000
    On my ship the Rocinante
    I felt .... very moved by this episode. It was a nice touch by the BBC to place a public service announcement at the end for those who had questions about depression.

    One question at the moment. What was the title of the song played when the Doctor brought Van Gogh forward into the present to see his paintings?
  4. Servo

    Servo Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Nov 13, 2003
    Manchester, England

    The invisible creature, and the scenes where The Doctor and Vincent were fighting it off, really reminided me of some of the scenes described in Lovecraft's The Dunwich Horror. Was kinda hoping for a more Old One-ish design to the creature at first, but I doubt that would have worked with the turn the story ended up taking.

    Fucking good episode, though.
  5. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 27, 2007
  6. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 3, 2001
    On the destruct button until the last minute!
    I loved this one.

    They sure seem to be making a big deal about the Doctor's old faces in this season. I hope that goes somewhere.
  7. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

    May 19, 2001
    Columbus, Ohio
    It's called Chances by Athete.
  8. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

    Apr 24, 2003
    Something very important about this episode, the Doctor is able to fly the TARDIS to the exact point in time and space he wanted. A sign for sure that he has gained greater control over the TARDIS as the years have gone by.
  9. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

  10. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

    Apr 24, 2003
    Just finished watching the entire episode, WOW, what an awesomely fantastic episode!

    How can anyone say this is filler or crap, this is one of the best of the season!

    This has a classic feel to it, The Doctor as we have come to know him througout the years was in true form. It was fantastic having the Doctor run back to the TARDIS, find some kind of machine thing to help him deal with the alien, and walk around wearing that bit. It was awesome of him taking Vincent into the TARDIS and taking him into the future to show him what his works will become! I did not expect that, it was really neat and very emotional at the end. It was also great that no major changes were made, only subtle, showing that the Doctor doesn't make big sweeping changes in history, just subtle ones for the good of mankind.

    The sets were brilliant, the scenery was fantastic, and this episode is what Doctor Who is all about, it was classic Who in true form and I loved it.

    It was also nice to not have a "crack" episode for a change, something different with a different pace. It was a nice break from all the crack business, but yet still manged to talk about it a little with the absence of Rory being the topic, Amy crying but she doesn't know why and her not being the marrying type etc...

    Matt Smith is proving more and more what a really great doctor he is, one of the best for sure.

    I am impressed by this episode, and this season is GREAT! I give it an A+ Excellent.
  11. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

    Nov 28, 2008
    Oh my god. That was amazing. That was just magnificent. It was a bit slow at first, but when they took Vincent to the museum it just made this episode for me. Definitely one of the best of the season.

    Question, I've always heard van Gogh's name pronounced as 'go', is that pronunciation just an American thing?
  12. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

    Apr 24, 2003
    Totally agree, really great moment in the episode.

    As an American, I've always heard it as "go" as well, we must be saying it wrong, i wouldn't be surprised lol
  13. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

    Mar 12, 2005
    Another pickup. Bill Nighy's character says at the start that Wheatfield With Crows was "one of the last paintings", whereas at the end he said it was "the last painting". And the two pictures look different. Someone with a HD version of this might be able to spot where the differences are. All my screencaps show is the large black cloud in the one at the start has a pale hole in the middle at the end.

    O dear o dear o dear. Turning obsessive...

    Think back to Episode 1, and the Doctor saying, "What did I miss? What did I miss?"
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  14. Sela301

    Sela301 Admiral Premium Member

    Mar 2, 2003
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA

    Just finished watching this episode and listening to the Great "Starry Starry Night" by Don McClain, and I think it's still sinking in quite a bit. This episode really brought me back to 2005 I think, in that it was fresh and exciting and I didn't know what was going to happen. I don't mean this as an insult to the rest of the series, because I love Doctor Who, but in 2005 when I hadn't seen or heard of the program before, I was debating watching it on Sci Fi and when I did and ended up watching the first season, I felt like this was the perfect series. Nothing was wrong with it, and everything was written and done perfectly.

    As time has gone by, I've started to be a little more critical but isn't everyone when that freshness/honeymoon period wears off? Tonight though, this episode took me back. It was like watching a masterpeice being created in front of our eyes, and it affected me in a way that no other episode has this season.

    Granted, I didn't like the story with the invincible rooster, and actually thought that whole Monster thing wasn't really needed. I guess the only reason it was needed was because this is an episode of Doctor Who, and Doctor Who deals with these kinds of monsters and the such. Thankfully it didn't feel like it went on too long, and I think it was wrapped up in such a way where the writers wanted to introduce it and then quickly get rid of it as fast as they could. It didn't detract from the rest of the story.

    As for that rest of the story, there were a few things that really resonated with me. One was the music that was played during Van Gogh's museum scene. Doctor Who has never had a music piece before, and I was a bit caught off gaurd by it. Then you had the Museum guide say how Brilliant Van Gogh was, and I got a little choked up. It was even more borrowing when Van Gogh did die, but he was able to see joy and what the Guide said was just really really amazing. Another thing I loved was the scene where they were laying there and the night sky got animated. Doctor Who has never done anything like that either, and it was just really really cool.

    This episode also had a few laughs. Two quotes from the Doctor were Hilarious I thought.

    "In the future, I'm only using this screwdriver for screwing screws"

    "I have this, over-confidence, and a screwdriver"

    The way Smith dilivered those lines were funny, probably some of the funniest moments from him all season.

    I also liked the pop culture references:

    -If you paint it, he will come - Field of Dreams
    -Starry Night

    As for the overarching theme, one thing caught my attention:

    This episode was kind of about one man seeing things others can't see. The scene where they were walking and Van Gogh saw in Amy that she had lost someone got me wondering. Does Amy actually know about Rory in her self conscious? We saw her really trying to hold on to the memory, and what if she had. Also, is this the first time we've seen the Tardis encyclopedia? That was kind of cool, if only out of the blue a bit.

    Still though, very provoking and impacting episode. I really haven't had that much to say about these episodes because I really want to see where everything goes, and there's been some that really haven't been worth saying much, but this one was different. Great Great stuff.
  15. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2002
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    I love Doctor Who's silliness and its melodrama. I love its scary monsters and its good-versus-evil-ness. I love the Doctor fighting the Daleks and battling the Master and all that.

    But this? It's for episodes like this that I love Doctor Who. Episodes like "Father's Day," like "The Girl in the Fireplace," like "Human Nature" and "The Family of Blood." Episodes like "Vincent and the Doctor."
  16. Checkmate

    Checkmate Commodore

    Mar 23, 2009
    Nah. We see the effects of changes in the show. If he didn't commit suicide originally, they wouldn't have known about it originally.
  17. DAK

    DAK Admiral Admiral

    May 6, 2004
    The whole scene where Van Gogh was painting the church and the Doctor was getting bored and antsy was hilarious. "Is this how time normally passes? Realllly slowly? In the right order?" :guffaw: His descriptions of watching Michelangelo and Picasso paint. When he jumped back into the room and yelled "Not that fast!", scaring the daylights out of Amy and Vincent. Amy scaring the daylights of him. Twice. I can't remember the last time I laughed out loud this many times in any one Doctor Who episode. I think this has to be one of my favorite episodes, ever. :bolian:
  18. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 27, 2002
    I don't know. But I do know that I've heard the British laughing at the pronunciation (us being such great linguists and all... :lol:)

    I find 11 to be bloody hilarious. It's like seeing the Doctor in his youth in some ways, but with an empathy and wisdom that comes with age. I'm really very fond of him.
  19. Silent_Bob

    Silent_Bob Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 15, 2001
  20. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 18, 1999
    Yes, mostly. Americans usually pronounce it "Van Go", in the UK you usually hear "Van Goff", which is what the Doctor was calling him, the French call him "Van Gog". The Bill Nighy character was pronouncing it correctly: [vɑɲˈʝɔç]