5x10 Vincent and the Doctor (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Count Zero, Jun 5, 2010.

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What's your verdict?

  1. Excellent

    63.3%
  2. Good

    28.5%
  3. Average

    2.5%
  4. Meh

    3.8%
  5. I'd rather cut off my ear

    1.9%
  1. wamdue

    wamdue Admiral Admiral

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    I tend to agree with this the "Van Gogh" stuff was good, the actual Doctor Who part of it, was just awful.
     
  2. DAK

    DAK Admiral Admiral

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    Loved it! The Doctor's jumpy, who would've thought? :lol:
     
  3. The

    The Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The definitive sequel to Father's Day perfect emotional rollercoaster. Excellent! :techman:
     
  4. DAK

    DAK Admiral Admiral

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    Oh definitely, me too! He's just so amazing in the role. I hope he sticks around for a long time.
     
  5. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Go on.
     
  6. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Wow. An Excellent from me. Not only best of season so far, but one of the best stories the shows done in a good long while. I haven't seen all of the Hartnell's, but I think that was DW's first ever 'character studies'. Plus it goes back to why the show came about in the first place. To try to teach kids a little something. And dammit, who hasn't dreamed that they had a time machine so that they could go back and show some historic 'not appreciated in their lifetimes' person just what their accomplishments really meant.

    Lovely performances all around. And who cares if it wasn't yet another 'Doctor defeats monster and saves the world' story. C'mon, those are a dime a dozen. Props to Moffet for doing something different. (now time to sit back and wait for Bone's obligatory "Well that was a load of crap." post).

    Really hope this episode has some awards in its future.

    I admit I'm not much of an 'art' person, but I still loved Vincent as just a regular guy in pain, especially since I've had my own issues with depression, and feeling like nobody really gives a damn. Hell, now I want to find out more about him. If it makes others feel the same, then I'd say its a win all around.

    Not sure about about next weeks premise, but that Next Time got a chuckle out of me.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go clean up in here a bit. During those last few minutes of the story museum I noticed my rooms gotten a bit dusty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The first time Victor showed some keen interest in Amy, the back of my mind wiggled, but the more and more he expressed his love for the girl, I wondered how exactly she was going to end up with his ear? I thought possibly he's not too insane and it just gets ripped off by the monster, and then he gives it to her, and because she's such a "fan" well of course she's going to take it, because that makes her a huge part of his story and even a huge part of the world more so than just the Doctor being a ponce about the importance of little people.

    Despite those wishes, I was still crying and laughing at the same time becuase I'm going a little soft with age.

    Besides, he could still mutilate himself for her at a later date.
     
  8. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    Heh, this really is a marmite ep, not a single average vote yet.

    Personally, I voted Good. This may have had the most emotionally effective moments of this series, but I think there have been better overall written eps.

    EDIT: Oh look, an average vote. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  9. wamdue

    wamdue Admiral Admiral

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    see my initial review.
     
  10. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Its a very polarized world we live in.
     
  11. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Hartnell or Troughton cameos yet. I know we've been getting them a lot of Doctor cameos this season, but they're still worth mentioning.

    Anyway, fantastic episode for all the reasons everyone else has already mentioned. Unfortunately the crappy monster, bad story, and dull beginning drops it down a rank.

    I went with Good. Or, as I prefer to think of it, 4/5. We really do need a rank between Good and Excellent.
     
  12. Brendan Moody

    Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the first ten minutes were smashing.

    The next twenty-five were good but perhaps a little shallow in their treatment of Van Gogh and his illness, and dull on the monster front. The episode could have deemphasized either storyline in favor of the other and gotten away with it, but I thought that it offered a subplot's worth of both. And "Vincent can see invisible monsters because he's mentally ill" is a bit close to the unfortunate modern tendency to romanticize Van Gogh's tragic and destructive illness as part of his talent. On the plus side, the episode avoided the worst "tortured genius" excesses of popular portrayals of Van Gogh.

    The final ten minutes had maybe four minutes' worth of incident mercilessly stretched in a way that diluted the effect of Tony Curran's performance. If they'd cut some of that, they could have shown more of Van Gogh's mental illness than a thirty-second attack that ends abruptly when the plot requires it. (And really, I think Van Gogh learning that his work survived and was highly valued would have been enough; did we need the brilliant and underused Bill Nighy declaring that he was "ONE OF THE GREATEST MEN EVER"?)

    But questions of execution aside, that was a more substantial idea for an episode than anything else we have had or are likely to have this series, and I'm very glad it was made.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  13. Angel4576

    Angel4576 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fantastic episode, largely for the reasons previously posted.

    I can understand some people not going oveboard with it as the middle section was weaker than the rest, but Bob's right, anyone voting this as 'awful' really shouldn't be allowed to watch television anymore.
     
  14. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    Excellent! My favorite of Eleven's outings yet and possibly my favorite of all. Van Gogh was touchingly treated and Curran brought warmth to his character. Even the Krafayis was worth a few shed tears.

    That bit at the end, bringing Van Gogh to his future and letting him hear what other people thought of his work was just amazing. It's one of those things that should happen in a just universe. The elation the man must have felt! But was this ultimately the kindness that did him in? Did the Doctor's reward drive him into such a manic state of pride and joy that the inevitable return of depression would be so much worse?
     
  15. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    next season I nominate Sylvia Plath as our required historical figure

    The Doctor and Sylvia with their heads in the stove
     
  16. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know what to think here. I was really enjoying the episode and the portrayal of Van Gogh was awesome but those last five or ten minutes were just so out there. The "For Amy" thing was really over the top (it seemed funny to be in English -- I know, Tardis Schmardis...). It also kind of left a bad feeling of telling kids that there is no hope for turning around depression.

    I liked Bill Nighy and the bow ties and the Doctor's whack device. I thought the Starry Night scene was nicely done, even just the holding hands and lying out part. Like I said, I enjoyed it, even with the goofy alien chicken monster but I'm just not sure about that ending.
     
  17. Angel4576

    Angel4576 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The ending really worked for me.

    For me, it was that 'so out of character' behaviour of the Doctor in actually taking VG to the future that made it all the more touching. Even though he knew it was futile to try and prevent his suicide, he did what he could, to at least ease the self-doubt that plagued VG, and send him on his way with the knowledge that his work would endure for as long as art is appreciated.

    It's the kind of thing that you'd have wanted him to do for Dickens back in season 1, but Dickens wasn't plagued by the same demons that VG was, hence he just got the pep-talk.
     
  18. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if they do this in the UK but if that mirror had one of those "Objects in mirror are closer they appear" on it I think that would have been fantastic.:lol:
     
  19. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

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    That one really got to me, I'm still crying.
     
  20. Jimmy_C

    Jimmy_C Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wonder if that contributed to his depression, though. Showing VG that his works would endure, but he may feel that the man behind the paintings isn't worthy of that praise. Or maybe he felt a sense of futility, since he wouldn't be appreciated very much until after death. Maybe he killed himself precisely because he felt that was the only way he could receive recognition. So it is possible the Doctor's actions contributed to VG's suicide.