22nd century star clipper...

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sounds promising, I always saw the 22nd/23rd century designs being more modular and interchangeable. The smaller more workhorse classes would benefit from variations like this, something I couldn't see the original Daedalus being able to fulfill.

    Then again, I always interpreted her as a warp drive testing class of some unspecified sort, and that any full production model would be far more refined and specific than her.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the sensor pod being kept for at least one of the variations, I think a manned sensor deck sounds like a pretty good idea for the era.
     
  2. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I think of starship development as being somewhat analogous to the first decades of flight or automobiles when a lot of things are experimented with in seeking that optimal formula and configuration. We could see all kinds of different things.

    I envision it somewhat different than "official" Trek lore that has had nacelles from the beginning. I see the ringship as being the clue where the first ships had (comparatively) massive warp coils housed in the rings. Successive designs might have led to smaller rings until someone had the idea to put a series of smaller rings with a cylinder (or two or three). Eventually you could see designs where the nacelles no longer had to be cylindrical as evidenced in designs like the TMP refit and the TOS Klingon battle cruiser.

    Another consideration: over the years a lot has been said about the TOS Enterprise's design, in particular the slim support pylons. as well as the massive saucer attached to the secondary hull by the narrow dorsal. In universe why would they design a ship this way? Perhaps design evolution led to a shape better suited to the kind of space warp propulsion they were dealing with and in tandem with advanced materials and construction methods that make such a configuration possible. The MJ design might look fragile, but it obviously isn't.

    So I think it makes sense that earlier ships would have more likely been less exotic in design (progressively going backward) and configuration.

    That leads me to the idea of a large spherical hull connected to a cylindrical aft hull by way of a skinny interconnecting neck or dorsal, and having nacelles supported by equalling skinny pylons. I don't see them having access to to the same advanced materials and construction methods as the TOS era particularly as the 22nd century is supposed to be "more primitive."

    Of course my reason (out of universe) is that the design looks so dorky. :lol:
     
  3. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I see the pylons being the result of megastructures being used in other ways around the galaxy, leading to large scale manufacturing being needed.

    Maybe a starbase with walkways extended between parts of a planetoid mass, which needed single piece metal supports of some impressive size and tensile strength. Underground mining facilities from Devil in the Dark, Memory Alpha, early shipyards etc

    Making smaller ones for starships to create thin cavaties in the profile for warp flight would seem easy compared to that.

    Allowing something as heavy as the nacelles to be carefully carried away from the hull by only the bare necessary mechanical connections.

    Starbases and starships have been shown to be similar in that era, there are bound to be a lot of shared manufacturing techniques going on there, saving time and resources by maximizing shared production.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Here we can see some basic configurations and variants.

    [​IMG]

    Numbers 1 and 2 are closest to MJ's concept sketches. For myself I'm just not crazy about these even with their altered proportions. To me Number 3 looks like a very early prototype we might have seen in early 22nd century.

    Number 4 doesn't look bad because reducing the size of the forward hull seems to balance things out better visually---in my opinion, of course.

    To me Numbers 6, 7 and 8 look best. 6 and 7 benefit from a smaller forward hull as I think it improves the overall look of the design. Number 8 was an accident as I was mixing and matching things. I just happened to see how it would look if a bit slimmer and it just clicked in a neat way that appeals to me. I think this would work with either a single nacelle or the conventional dual nacelle setup.
     
  5. PerfesserCoffee

    PerfesserCoffee Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Location:
    Lexington, S.C., C.S.A.
    Looking good! At first the design didn't seem to gel but once I could see where you're going with it, it begins to make good sense. :bolian:
     
  6. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread. As usual, Warped9, you've put the remarkable degree of thought into taking a concept and developing it with common sense. I'm loving both the Hercules and your refined Daedalus/Independence concept.

    May I suggest one thing? The shape you're using for the main hull on the Independence is basically a squat cylinder turned on it's side with a hemisphere cap. What if you tried those same configurations upthread, but replaced the main hull with a sphere, with the last third slice off where it meets the tapered cone you already have in place that joins the engineering section? Might at least make for an interesting comparison at the very least.

    As it stands, I think 4 and 6 are my favorites.
     
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Presently I'm souring on the present Independence concept. It's just not gelling for me in a way that feels right. When I get something I like there's an "ah-ha" moment that just isn't happening with what I've got now. I'm going to have to rethink it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  8. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    I know just you mean. I'm sure if you put it aside for a bit and revisit, it'll formulate for you.
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    You know, I was never a fan of the Daedulus class until I saw Madkoifish's take on it. Damn, it is a gorgeous bit of modeling. I highly encourage browsing that thread for the close up images of the detailing he's done. :drool:
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I have to give credit where due. He's done an awesome job on that. I really doubted that design could be made to look good, but he's done a good job of it. My only small quibble is that as is it fits right in with the TNG/ENT aesthetic, but it doesn't look like it would blend with TOS. It's not a criticism of his execution---which is flawless---but of his choice of approach. I think he's got the overall shapes and proportions just about perfect.
     
  11. PerfesserCoffee

    PerfesserCoffee Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Location:
    Lexington, S.C., C.S.A.
    Yeah, the placement and attachment points of the components are superior to other ways I've seen them done. And I agree that the detailing is a little out of sync with TOS sensibilities.

    BTW: (Only semi-related) Has anyone ever worked a Daedalus primary hull into a Grissom-like starship configuation?
     
  12. largo

    largo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    i think its clear that the TOS era was marked by a relatively short-lived dalliance in 1960's modernist styling, with little impact on long-term design and aesthetic trends.
     
  13. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    No. If you look at other sci-fi productions and sci-fi hardware of the time they all had a very similar aesthetic. In terms of having a clean look. And it's a look I still very mich prefer to some of the overdone detail following in the wake of Star Wars. Don't get me wrong---lots of detail can work within context of a given work, but I find it odd seeing it applied to Star Trek. Even TMP got more detailed than TOS (understandably), but it still wasn't in SW territory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  14. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    What's more, the cleanliness of the ship's exterior was intentional, and hard-fought by Jefferies; he felt that outer space was the worst possible environment for humans, and so you want everything you need to access to be accessible from the inside, hence little detail on the outside. Apparently GR fought him on that and what we ended up with was a minor compromise.
     
  15. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    Pretty sure Largo meant "in universe".
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did. What I neglected to address was this sense of revisionism that has cropped up since TNG. On one level I can see why it happened, but it's also partly the result of TOS being something of an orphan because even while being first it is separated by decades from the spin-off series.
     
  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Looking over that 3D Daedalus I find one of his model's strengths is that he wisely abandoned the proportions and very plain lines of MJ's concept sketch rather than accepting them near exactly as the DS9 model did. He used the basic idea as a jumping off point and then put some curves into the design. The more I look at the 3D model the more I like it. I do have a couple of quibbles, though. The support pylons meet at a juncture where the neck meets the support hull. It thus looks like you have to go through Engineering to get into the support hull. It isn't that different from the TOS Enterprise because the interconnecting dorsal is likely under an engineering section of the saucer, but on this Daedalus it seems more apparent. He's also placed the impulse engines behind the spherical forward hull---again similar to the Enterprise layout, but I'm wondering with older bulkier systems how much room in the forward hull this would compromise. His scale seems a bit odd, too, because of all the windows. It works if you go with the idea the average window size being smaller than the those on the Enterprise and thus makes the Daedalus seem larger than it is.


    I haven't finalized any colour choices yet and I've still got a ways to go all around, but the underside detailing is coming along.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Lego Thrawn

    Lego Thrawn Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Location:
    Csilla
    That new underside detail is looking nice.
     
  19. largo

    largo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2001
    well, when you had even gene "klingons always looked like that" roddenberry doing it...
     
  20. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Looking beautiful! :techman: