2013 NBA Offseason Thread...

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by HaventGotALife, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think the Lakers are able to make the playoffs, but I doubt they want to squeak in when they can get a favorable pick in a good draft instead.
     
  2. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As of a week ago the front office confirmed that Kobe is so far ahead of schedule in his rehab that, barring any setback, he could be back for the preseason. He has always been a fast healer.

    I think the Lakers could realistically slip in at 7th or 8th if we stay healthy and D'Antoni doesn't screw it up. The Grizz aren't going to be as good this season, I don't think, Rox will need time to jell with Dwight, who knows about Denver with George Karl, a coach I never liked, gone. Look at last season, I think we ended up wih the 6th spot agaonst all odds.

    The Lakers, unlike other francises, will never tank for a high pick. It's just not in the nature of this franchise.
     
  3. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Andrew Bynum talking about Cavs fans:

    "I just know that they’re really, really passionate, and I haven’t had the opportunity to play for a city that is really just gonna stand up and really support the team, I’m super excited and I can’t wait to see what it’s like."

    Unfortunately for him, he won't likely to know what it's like in Cleveland either given his knees are shot so he isn't going to play for them either. I'm assuming the "play" is important and it's just a shot at Lakers fans, but it's nice to burn bridges with the only people who still like him.
     
  4. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I never thought I'd hear those words spoken. I got into basketball in the good old days of the early 90s and they've been a joke since long before that.
     
  5. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You know, I don't think Andrew was taking a "shot" at Lakers' fans even though the statement could be construed as such. That just wouldn't be in Andrew's nature. He does have a penchant for saying what is on his mind without filter.

    What he is likely referring to is the Lakers' fans well known (and deserved) reputation for not getting "all that" excited about regular season games (unless we're playing the Celts sometimes).

    The fans don't get crazy until it is "money time" -- the playoffs. Cleaveland fans, as well as any number of other fanbases around the league, are nuts from the opening tip in October. This, I think, is what Drew is talking about. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
     
  6. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Well, that's a very charitable interpretation of never playing for a city that's "really going to stand up and really support the team." But it's directed at you, so you're entitled to interpret it how you want and add a "during the regular season" to it if you want to.
     
  7. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because after several years I feel like I kinda know the kid. Since he was traded a year ago he has not said one thing against the Lakers, the city of L.A., or Lakers' fans. He could have made this same statement in his first press conference in Philadelphia, but he didn't.

    Andrew has shown that he can be vindictive in some of his actions on court but he has not shown a propensity for using words to show resentment or anger especially from a distance. This is what Shaq spent so many fruitless hours doing after his trade to Miami.

    Drew is just not the same type of guy.
     
  8. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^I'd agree with that. As immature as Bynum seems to be, he's not prone to the cheap-shots that O'Neal regularly fired at people after leaving teams. His anti-Lakers comments are especially memorable, from calling Jerry Buss an "old man" to referring to Kobe Bryant as "that guy" or "the other guy." He also talked about his Lakers career as though it was something that happened in the distant past even right after he was traded, always starting sentences with "back when I played with the Lakers..."

    --Sran
     
  9. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, my Pistons made a move again. Brandon Jennings was sent to the Pistons via a sign-and-trade with the Bucks for Brandon Knight, Slava Krastov, and Khris Middelton (who turned in some big performances towards the end of last season).

    The current starting five looks like this:

    PG: Brandon Jennings
    SG: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
    SF: Josh Smith
    PF: Greg Monroe
    C: Andre Drummond

    My reaction is that Jennings is an upgrade over Knight at this point. Jennings, much like Billups before him, will have to change his game for the Pistons to become an elite-level team, but stranger things have happened. For the short-term, Jennings is 23 and further along in his development than Brandon Knight. He's young and experienced. He's been to the postseason. He has a 55-point game in his career.

    But this is more an indictment of Knight, then it is that I'm happy about Jennings. Knight has no jumper to speak of. He can drive to the lane with the best of them, but teams can sag off him and leave him, and when Knight and Stuckey were on the floor, the two of them used to get in each other's way around the rim. The offense flowed when Will Bynum was at the point because he can do things, athletically, that Knight doesn't do.

    There was no floor spacing with Knight. Now, being fair to Knight, the Pistons didn't have the best people developing him nor is he a finished product at this point. His development, although I think his ceiling is lower than Jennings, will determine the outcome of this deal. Even if the Pistons win a Championship, if Knight is All-NBA, this will be the Darko corner of that title. This is a risk, but one that I think Joe D had to take.
     
  10. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  11. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kills me how so many of the so called experts label whatever happened most recently a "trend". Just 3 seasons ago the Lakers dominated the league playing two seven footers. Back then the "trend" was toward stockpiling big men.

    Now that the LeBrons have won two in a row, the "trend" is toward small ball. As soon as the Heat fail to win a championship, most likely this coming season, whoever wins and the method by which they win, will be declared the new NBA "trend". You really have to look further than the most recent NBA champion to discover real trends in the league.
     
  12. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I don't think the trend can ever be stockpiling big men because there aren't enough talented 7 footers in the league to support that.
     
  13. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, it was most definitely perceived as a "trend", regardless of skill levels of the various bigs being signed. Teams, especially those in the west, thought they had to "stockpile" bigs in order to compete with Bynum and Gasol.

    Miami's "small ball" formula is an illusion. They just signed Greg Oden. Riles knows that there still is no substitute for height even though the Heat hasn't seemed to need it in the last 2 years. They were able to win with a small team because of LeBron, and because they faced the not ready for primetime Thunder, (who weren't exactly "big" themelves) and had HCA against the Spurs (who were "big", but didn't have HCA). But going for a 3-peat, Riles knows the "trends" are a bunch of bunk.
     
  14. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I agree about Miami's smallball (as a strategy) being incorrect (although I suspect they'll mostly be small ball because of Oden's health problems), but I have no memory of claims that stockpiling centers was a trend. Can you find any stories reporting on this trend because I just don't remember it?

    ETA: In other news, Lebron James finally shaves his head. Good, now we can stop dealing with this headband bullshit.
     
  15. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The trend in the NBA is towards putting the best five players on the court, regardless of position, and sharing the responsibilities on the floor (ball-handling, shooting, rebounding, defense, etc.) with all five players. Why? Because teams will force you to put the ball in the hands of the guy who cannot shoot the basketball. They will force a bad shot. The game is quicker because the rules ask it to be. Transition hoops are best because there's a large area of the floor, around the basket, where you cannot stand. The key. Big men cannot keep up with those players running the floor. They are too big and usually lack the quickness or skill to swipe a ball. They usually commit a foul. 2 of those in the fourth quarter, the big man is done until the 2nd quarter. One more, he's done for the half. They get pulled. Even Dwight Howard.

    Going back to 2009, the Lakers won, but the Orlando Magic was re-defining positions around the league with Ryan Anderson, Rashard Lewis, and Hedo Turkoglu, and taking Howard off the floor in key moments because of his foul shooting and foul trouble. The Seattle Supersonics, for instance, were a token team in 2005, one that couldn't make it past the second round, doing a lot of the same things.

    The problem with a big man, in the traditional sense, is that they can only catch the ball, and score, in a certain area. The trend is for more athletic big men (Chris Andersen, for instance, was the guy for the Heat) and less of the back-to-the-basket players. This is because no one can stand in the paint anymore, except on a rebound. This, again, is because of the rules. Teams that play with bigs, traditional bigs, need shooting around them. When they have good guards, and not spot-shooters, the big man becomes almost irrelevant, with exceptions to rebounding, on the offensive end. Why pay Kendrick Perkins 12 million dollars if he can't stay on the floor and can't stop the other team from scoring, can't score on the block (because he has no post game)? Andersen came at 1 million dollars this season? No need to get him a shot, just keep him around the rim. And even San Antonio exposed him. But he's not eating the cap when they happens now.

    The league is built for speed and shooting now. Teams that are quick to get up the floor, players that have a good first-step to create seperation, they are the ones making an impact around the league. Go back 10 years and watch the Sacramento Kings, a fun offense, and nothing like what we see now in terms of pace. So you have a player that's lumbering up and down the court with 250-300 pounds on his backside, who starts at the worst possible position for transition defense. He's standing under the basket at the other end of the floor. He's not mobile enough to stop the outlet pass to a player that can run the court end to end. So it's an easy score. Watch how the Grizzlies play sometime. Now, they are the token team.

    This is not to say that post play is entirely dead. It's just not the seven-footers doing the posting up. And when you do, if the ball is dribbled more than 2 dribbles, the defense collapses and you're putting up a bad shot, and that's before they call defensive 3-seconds, or get you for backing down a player from 20-feet out. So there's no room to stay in the lane anymore. Dikembe Mutombo wouldn't be waiving his finger in today's NBA. Pay attention to the rules.

    The Lakers' big men were able to pass, shoot from the outside, and hit their foul shots. Bynum is the only one who couldn't and how many times did they make the Finals with Andrew Bynum lost for the playoffs? 2 out of 3 years?
     
  16. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't recal specific articles either, but I wasn't going strictly by my memory of what was written when I said that acquiring bigs became the trend in the NBA when the Lakers were on their last run. I was going by my memory of what some teams actually did.

    It is the reason the Thunder acquired Kendrick Perkins to go along with Ibaka, the Spurs' aquisition of Tago Splitter to team with Duncan, the Mavs aquisition of Tyson Chandler along with Drew Gooden, Brendan Heywood, and Erick Dampier, the Suns' aquisition of Shaq, the Memphis Grizz. There were other miscellaneous lower tiered bigs (and teams) signed by other various teams. All these teams were following what they perceived as a (winning) trend.

    The point is that teams who look at the last couple NBA champs and think they are seeing a "trend" that will guarantee similar results IF you follow the trend, will likely be sitting at home in June. And the so called "pundits" who look to the last few NBA champs and see a "trend" as the "new direction" in the league will almost always end up looking bad.
     
  17. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think that's fair. Although they still like having a great big man when they can find one (I'm talking hall of fame quality center). The Spurs wouldn't be the Spurs without Tim Duncan. Hell, Duncan's a perfect example of why it's nice to have a good center - rebounding. Duncan was taken out of the game late in game six in order to defend the three point shooters. Unfortunately, it left the Spurs without someone who could rebound. Because of this, the Heat got the rebound and still got the three that the fast people were supposed to defend against.

    That being said, I think the days of putting in a mediocre or average center are gone. It's better to go small in those situations. If the Bulls were around today, I could see somebody like Kukoc starting and Luc Longley taking up space on the bench and Rodman under center.
     
  18. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just lost a post I was writing in response to yours. I will have to reconstruct it from home.
     
  19. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you're sugesting here that the best way to attack on offense is by putting 5 guys who can handle on the floor, that sounds like "small ball" to me since there are very very few 7 footers who have ballhandling skills.

    This is the type of thinking that sparked this debate. Just because the Heat won last year mostly playing small ball, that is not a good reason to think that this is the best way to win the next championship. The Heat were basically forced to play this way because they just didn't have a good enough 7 footer. They beat the not ready for prim time Thunder because the Thunder were green and were kind of small themselves. They beat the Spurs this past season only because the HEat had HCA and LeBron. Heat lost to the Mavs becasue the Mavs at the time, were VERY big.
    Transition hoops can be stopped by getting at least 3 guys back on defense every time down and by offensive rebounding. None of the 3 guys getting back need be a 7 footer. If what you write was true, the Suns, Warriors, and others would have a few recent Finals appearances or wins, at least. Both thse teams have been the (bigger) Lakers' punching bags for years -- well, up until last year.

    You do realize that not all big men are bad free throw shooters, right? And Orlando "redefining positions", to what end? Neither they, nor any of the other teams who have subscribed to the small ball ethic have won anything of any significancs, save Miami.

    Not certain what you're talking about here. Good 7 footers, especially those wih good low post offensive skills are always in demand by teams who are serious about competing for championships. That type of game creates easier scoring opportunuties and contributes to getting the other team into foul trouble.

    As for the 3 second rule, that has been a part of basketball for at least half a century, why would it all of a sudden present a problem for bigs now? If you mean the 3 second defensive rule, please keep in mind the Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, and Mavs, all teams with dominant bigs have won championships or been to the Finals, since the 3 second defensive rule came into effect.

    Get back to me when the Warriors or Suns make it to the Finals playing with guards "good guards" instead of "traditional" big men. Kendrick Perkins is a defensive specialist who is not expected to carry his team's low post scoring load. He is limited in his abilities but is a good fit for the Thunder. Keep in mind, THEY have been to the Finals in the last few seasons.

    Speed and shooting are being emphasized these days, but size and strength still matter a lot. As I metioned before, you only need (at least) 3 guys to run back on defense to stop the break and none of them need be a 7 footer. The preferred number back is 5 but 4 with your big man joining the party a little late is not going to hurt the better defensive teams that much. Again, I am not talking about teams who are playing fast and loose but not winning anything.
    Teams who don't post up 7 footers usually means that team doesn't have a 7 footer who CAN effectively play in the low post. You saw the Spurs didn't hesitate to post Timmy this past season. If the Heat had had a 7 foot low post player, they would have posted him up.

    Uh, no. Andrew was lost for the 2008 Finals only which the Lakers lost to the Celts. Know why? Because the Celts had more bigs. The 2 Finals in which Andrew played, we won 2 championships. And what are you talking about Andrew couldn't shoot from the outside and pass and shoot free throws? He was competent from 10 to 15 feet. His passing was acceptable but not on the level of Pau, and Andrew was a 70%+ free throw shooter.

    You should stop listening to the so called experts who need something to write or talk about and start actually looking at what the legitimate contenders are doing. You may be too focused on the NBA also-rans who will be chasing their tails forever looking to the latest trend as a formula for winning a ring.

    Miami, yeah, the small ball "kings", just signed Greg Oden. And I take back what I said about the GS Warriors bcause I forgot they boldly moved to acquire 7 foot Andrew Bogut who can shoot from the outside but is certainly not athletic, has little ballhandling skills, and in most respects is a "traditional" big. The Spurs will go with Tiago Splitter and Duncan, both traditional bigs.

    I will pick the team with good bigs any day over the team with a bunch of fast "littles" who can shoot. The "littles" may win a few regular season games, but in a 7 game playoff series, they will get worn down and out by the bigger teams.
     
  20. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Suns release Michael Beasley

    Scary to think the Bull could've picked this guy #1 instead of Derek Rose.

    On the subject of the Bulls, have they done anything other than take a few steps backwards this offseason?

    They get Derek back, but have only lost secondary players.